Phonel Line DSL Sharing 2

[vespin]

First, let me preface this post with "I'm a phone cabling moron, but computer savvy." That said...

I just moved into a new condo. One of the perks of our new condo is that they have several DSL lines that are shared amongst the condos.

Now, I talked a bit (and by a bit I mean 10 seconds) with the network admin and he explained that they are sharing the connection via the phone line. He said in order to get the Internet hooked up, he would have to add a network jack into my apartment. He explained that he borrowed some of the wires from the phone line and hooked them up to a network jack.

Does anyone have an idea of how to convert a rj-11 jack to a rj-45 jack? I'm lost in this endeavor.

I'd have the network admin add the jack, but he's on vacation for a month and he's going to charge me to install it.

Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks!

 

[franklin97355]

Since I don't know what the "network" guy did you will probably have to wait until he can explain it to you. What he is doing is not "standard, approved or in any way recommended

 

[slorch]

"I'm a phone cabling moron, but computer savvy."

If anyone is a moron here, it's your so-called "Network Admin".

So, if I'm understanding correctly, he's installed a router and switch in the telecom room, or some other central location. He's then taken 2 pairs from each phone line to the units and is running data over those. This is a monumentally bad idea, as telephone ring voltage will wreak havoc with the network connection.

That said, it could work reasonably well, if you don't have phone service installed, or don't get a lot of calls. The trick is to figure out which pairs he's using for data, and how he's got them connected. The easiest way would be to look at a neighbor' jack and replicate that at your place using a Leviton Cat5e jack (includes a plastic punch-down tool), available at any Home Depot.

I'd ask around and see exactly how smoothly things run. In theory, with enough units and ringing phones, a low-end switch might freak out fairly often.

 

[vespin]

Thanks for the info. The good news is that I don't use a regular phone, so it shouldn't be ringing much.

Here's what I've done. I've taken a piece of cat5, cut off the blue and brown wires, and then crimped on a rj-11 jack.

The plan is the plug that into the phone jack to see how it goes. Now, do I need to cut the non-data wires that are running to the phone jack or am I okay the way things are?

 

[hbiss]

Uggh, just wait for him to come back!

-Hal

 

[crooter]

I think you should wait till he comes back to run it for you--even if he will charge you--that makes him responsible to make it work.

normally DSL comes in via cat3 phone wire (center pair on the rj11) or better and is then connected to a DSL Modem which then connects via cat5 or cat5e to a linksys or Dlink or some other brand named router. From the ports on the router, Cat5 or Cat5e will be plugged in (RJ45 pins 1-2 and 3-6 are for ethernet)and the cable run to your apartment or condo --ending up terminated on a rj45 insert on a wall plate where you will plug into it for a connection.

Might be all around less headaches and Aw sh*ts if he does it.

 

[hawks]

Have to go with everone else here no network jack needed. Just to add one thing don't forget to use the Filter that should come with your DSL Modem. This filter is used so you can also connect to any analog device (phone, fax, ect.) that you might need dial tone at. That's where the sharing comes in. Without the filter if you are on the Internet and then go to make a call from the Analog it will kick you off of the Internet.

 

[DigitalMind]

You don't need a filter as it is already installed wherever the modem and router is.
First of all, like everyone else said, this is a VERY bad way of doing it.

Wait until he comes back, because even if you add a data jack onto the extra pairs of the phone wires, and get the pin-out right, he probably hasn't connected the other end into the router or switch yet ..

 

[daronwilson]

We have several hospitality (motel) customers that are VERY tight with their money and use this approach. Most of them have Cat5 to the rooms, they split out the white/blue for dial tone and use two pairs for 10Bt ethernet. Before I go any further, let me say this is not a 'standards compliant installation', it will not meet any applicable telecommunications standards, and as such is not a 'proper' method. However, it is done quite often and can work.

In the dozen or so that i have seen, the ethernet is held down to 10mbs, which is a fairly robust connection. At first i was pretty skeptical of the installation, so we did some tests. With Cat5, I didn't lose service or notice a decrease in the browsing speed while letting the phone ring for a minute or more. Also, we set a message waiting light (90v or so DC pulsed to the lamp on the phone) and that didn't seem to affect the connection either.

For some of the old motel units where new wiring would have been several hundred dollars per room, it is a quick, cheap and dirty method of getting internet in the rooms.

Also..it is possible that the 'network admin' is using HPNA or something like Cisco's long range ethernet to get to the units where there is a black box to give you an ethernet connection.

Again it is not a 'proper' way of doing the connection, but it's pretty common in buildings with limited wiring and no real easy way to add more.

good luck,

Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
Solving 'Real World' problems

 

[skip555]

daron

is this with cat 3 or 5 cable ?

you say its a older motel/hotel
would they have cat5 in place ? I would think cat 3 or less (which still ought to work )

(not trying to be combative just wondering )

I do agree a lot of non compient soultions work and are all the cutomer can afford

 

[ttech]

I have Installed Internet To hotel rooms using VDSL

Basically the Analog line loops thru a VDSL concentrator by the Phonesystem or DMarc and a CPE modem is put in the rooms. The Comdo is probably using a similar approach

this is what we used

http://www.netsys-direct.com/vdsl_products.php

 

[Jtodd]

We're using VDSL as well, but only as a temporary point-to-point solution where we may have existing copper and fiber is to expensive of a solution to install for a temporary installation.
Works quite well.

Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay

 

[ISDNman]

Maybe he is using HPNA? This is similar to the old Apple local talk and runs on a single pair of cat 3.

At the computer you need a USB dongle to convert.

If it IS Ethernet, I agree it should work for 10 Base-T (that was orginally part of the plan)assuming there are 2 unused pairs to work with and if it is not more than 100 meters.

Ideally, rather than custom wiring jacks you'd use a spltter dongle gizmo such as sold by Sandman.

This approach would make it a < 15 minute job to add a new unit - simply plug the adapter in on each end and then insert a patch cable into the adapter on each end.

Good luck

 

[daronwilson]

I've had pretty good results in the few we did on Cat3, 10mbs hubs instead of autosensing switches and the thing does pretty well.

As far as a dongle/adapter, if the unit were wired with all 8 wires for a phone jack, that would be easy. More than likely if it is four pair it only has the first one or two pair terminated on a USOC jack (from what i have seen) so one almost has to rewire. Also, the cable is likely punched down on 66 or 110 blocks and jumpered to the PBX or DMARC for dial tone so the adapter won't be quite so easy.

Good Luck


Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
Solving 'Real World' problems

 

[ISDNman]

Good point Daron... it all depends

I too have had good luck with 10 base-T on Cat 3

I dfon't recall if HPNA uses the voice pair or T2/R (aka black/yellow) but it probably isn't HPNA anyway...