I'm new to telco and need help for this setup - I need to share a phone jack/line out so that a digital phone (Avaya) and an analog modem from a laptop can use the same line. Do I need a special splitter? What pair needs punched? (is it blue for digital and green for analog?)
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations SkipVought on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
Phone line share - digital & analog 1
- Thread starter bronatuk
- Start date
Hitechbuzz
Technical User
Hi broatuk
I assume you have a network outlet that you wish to split
If you have splitters plug one in at each end.lines in at patch pannel and phones at wall outlet.
If you don't have splitters you can make them up yourself. Take a length of utp ie. cat5 cable with a plug on one end. Strip other end & terminate on RJ45 jacks on a plate say it had 4jacks on it. Put the blue pair onto the first blue on the first jack. Next put the orange onto the Blue on the next jack. Now the Green onto the third jack blue & lastly put the Brown onto the blue on the fourth jack(any forth guys around).
You need to have two of these one for each end. if you only want two split 2 ways use 2 jacks on your plate & use blue & orange pairs. But do the same at each end.
Or you can use 3 jacks on a plate and wire from one jack as a common then use a patch cord(s) to connect to your plates.
Hope this is clear Cheers
I assume you have a network outlet that you wish to split
If you have splitters plug one in at each end.lines in at patch pannel and phones at wall outlet.
If you don't have splitters you can make them up yourself. Take a length of utp ie. cat5 cable with a plug on one end. Strip other end & terminate on RJ45 jacks on a plate say it had 4jacks on it. Put the blue pair onto the first blue on the first jack. Next put the orange onto the Blue on the next jack. Now the Green onto the third jack blue & lastly put the Brown onto the blue on the fourth jack(any forth guys around).
You need to have two of these one for each end. if you only want two split 2 ways use 2 jacks on your plate & use blue & orange pairs. But do the same at each end.
Or you can use 3 jacks on a plate and wire from one jack as a common then use a patch cord(s) to connect to your plates.
Hope this is clear Cheers
AvayaNovice
Vendor
Wait a second.
What type of Avaya phone system do you have?
Let us know, that will determine how you do this.
Also, what type of jack and cable do you have? 6 conducter, 4, or 8?
Nick
What type of Avaya phone system do you have?
Let us know, that will determine how you do this.
Also, what type of jack and cable do you have? 6 conducter, 4, or 8?
Nick
daronwilson
Vendor
I believe he is trying to use an analog modem on a digital phone port, nothing to do with a network port.
Depending on which avaya system you have, it may be very easy. If you have a Partner for example, you just need a 4 wire modular splitter. The partner will allow you to have a feature set plugged in and running, and you can also have an analog set on just the white/blue pair. Nothing extra needed.
If you have a different Avaya switch, the solution may not be so easy. If it is actually a digital switch, you won't be able to derive an analog connection from the digital jack. Some phone allow you to install a daughter board inside the phone and plug an analog device into the base of the phone. Otherwise, you are likely stuck using an adapter that plugs into the handset port and allows you to connect your modem there.
It depends on which phone switch and which telephone sets you have.
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
Depending on which avaya system you have, it may be very easy. If you have a Partner for example, you just need a 4 wire modular splitter. The partner will allow you to have a feature set plugged in and running, and you can also have an analog set on just the white/blue pair. Nothing extra needed.
If you have a different Avaya switch, the solution may not be so easy. If it is actually a digital switch, you won't be able to derive an analog connection from the digital jack. Some phone allow you to install a daughter board inside the phone and plug an analog device into the base of the phone. Otherwise, you are likely stuck using an adapter that plugs into the handset port and allows you to connect your modem there.
It depends on which phone switch and which telephone sets you have.
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
AvayaNovice
Vendor
If you want to occupy that line while you're using your modem, then it's all going to depend on what type of switch you have.
Partner switches are not completely digital, only the outside pair is. You can use the inside pair with a regular analog device, granted you'll have to program auto line select or some other method of obtaining an outside line.
Magix switches are 100% digital, and I can't remember if you can use the AUX port (or if there even is one) with an analog device, furthermore, not all of the handsets on a magix can do that.
What I would reccomend is this (providing that you have a digital switch like a magix or a definity). If you have a spare pair in the cable for your jack, I'd take that pair and put it to a seperate jack for your modem. I would then cross connect it in your wiring closet to a spare extension. I would make that extension analog, and I would have it auto line select to the next available outside line. You can then use your modem.
Note: You will NOT get 56k speed if you go through your Avaya switch.
Partner switches are not completely digital, only the outside pair is. You can use the inside pair with a regular analog device, granted you'll have to program auto line select or some other method of obtaining an outside line.
Magix switches are 100% digital, and I can't remember if you can use the AUX port (or if there even is one) with an analog device, furthermore, not all of the handsets on a magix can do that.
What I would reccomend is this (providing that you have a digital switch like a magix or a definity). If you have a spare pair in the cable for your jack, I'd take that pair and put it to a seperate jack for your modem. I would then cross connect it in your wiring closet to a spare extension. I would make that extension analog, and I would have it auto line select to the next available outside line. You can then use your modem.
Note: You will NOT get 56k speed if you go through your Avaya switch.
- Thread starter
- #6
I should have put more info in my original question/posting.
An analog port is set up on the switch already (this was done by an outside vendor). The phone is wired to the blue pair and active. Am I correct in assuming that for an analog line I should have the GREEN pair punched?
I'm so new to telco that I'm not sure what conductor wire we have. It sounds like daronwilson is right, but I can't be sure - not sure if we have a Partner-or even what that is
- I have tried four different splitters but I believe they all are just splitting the digital pair out. (I don't get a dial tone when I test using an analog phone)
The part number on the splitters I am trying to use is 267C.
Our department just picked up Telephony (it was basically dumped on us) and none of us here have any experience in this at all. If more info from me is needed just post it.
Thanks for all the messages so far!!
An analog port is set up on the switch already (this was done by an outside vendor). The phone is wired to the blue pair and active. Am I correct in assuming that for an analog line I should have the GREEN pair punched?
I'm so new to telco that I'm not sure what conductor wire we have. It sounds like daronwilson is right, but I can't be sure - not sure if we have a Partner-or even what that is
- I have tried four different splitters but I believe they all are just splitting the digital pair out. (I don't get a dial tone when I test using an analog phone)The part number on the splitters I am trying to use is 267C.
Our department just picked up Telephony (it was basically dumped on us) and none of us here have any experience in this at all. If more info from me is needed just post it.
Thanks for all the messages so far!!
daronwilson
Vendor
Sounds like you need a phone dude
OK, if they gave you an analog port already in the back room, but not at your jack, it could be on white/orange or white/green or white/brown since your digital phone is likely on white/blue.
It is likely that only the white blue pair is terminated on the jack, or that it is an 8 conductor jack terminated such that you need a special splitter to get to the pair you need.
Is the wall jack you are plugging into a small phone style of jack or 8 pin data size of jack?
Can you look at the PBX phone system itself and find a name on it? (Partner, Definity, etc.)
Can you remove the wall plate and see how many pairs you have to deal with on the wire and how many are hooked to the jack?
That'll help us.
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
OK, if they gave you an analog port already in the back room, but not at your jack, it could be on white/orange or white/green or white/brown since your digital phone is likely on white/blue.
It is likely that only the white blue pair is terminated on the jack, or that it is an 8 conductor jack terminated such that you need a special splitter to get to the pair you need.
Is the wall jack you are plugging into a small phone style of jack or 8 pin data size of jack?
Can you look at the PBX phone system itself and find a name on it? (Partner, Definity, etc.)
Can you remove the wall plate and see how many pairs you have to deal with on the wire and how many are hooked to the jack?
That'll help us.
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
- Thread starter
- #8
We had a phone dude/dudess. Co. feels if it plugs into a wall the IT dept knows how it works, so phone dudess was let go.
The wall jack is the small phone style; RJ11 correct?
PBX is Definity.
The only thing I'm not sure of is the wall plate (actually cubical wall plate) jack and how many pairs are on that end.
I just would have assumed that all pairs would be active in the cube - I take it that's a poor general assumption to make. Thanks again.
The wall jack is the small phone style; RJ11 correct?
PBX is Definity.
The only thing I'm not sure of is the wall plate (actually cubical wall plate) jack and how many pairs are on that end.
I just would have assumed that all pairs would be active in the cube - I take it that's a poor general assumption to make. Thanks again.
daronwilson
Vendor
One more question, sorry I missed this, but which digital set? There are two pair ones (though I think those take an 8 conductor line cord) and single pair ones (which are 4 conductor line cords I think). Going on what you said, sounds like you have a single pair one. Wire could be (should be) 4 pair, and you can only land 3 pair on that jack you are describing. So, depending on where they hooked you up in at the PBX, you could have analog dial tone on any pair there except the digital phone one.
Are they labeled so you could go look in the back room at that wire number for the cubical and see which pairs have jumpers on them? In theory, there is a four pair wire for that cubical punched down with the same number at the cubical as in the back room. You should be able to peek at it in the back room and see if you have a jumper on something besides just the white blue. The jumper might be a different color for the analog, we routinely use white/red for digital and white/blue for analog but if it was Lucent guys that did it, it may be all yellow/blue jumpers, they seem to like that.
Hope that helps you, just gotta do some more tracing and find out what you got.
Sorry to hear you lost your phone dudess, I spent many years looking for the right one of those.
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
Are they labeled so you could go look in the back room at that wire number for the cubical and see which pairs have jumpers on them? In theory, there is a four pair wire for that cubical punched down with the same number at the cubical as in the back room. You should be able to peek at it in the back room and see if you have a jumper on something besides just the white blue. The jumper might be a different color for the analog, we routinely use white/red for digital and white/blue for analog but if it was Lucent guys that did it, it may be all yellow/blue jumpers, they seem to like that.
Hope that helps you, just gotta do some more tracing and find out what you got.
Sorry to hear you lost your phone dudess, I spent many years looking for the right one of those.
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
AvayaNovice
Vendor
What type of handset are you using? If it's an ISDN handset, you could be using two for sure, or possibly three pairs.
Let's make this real easy.
Is your jack numbered like DW said? If so, go find that in your wiring closet and see what you're looking at. If the cable coming out of the wiring closet has four pair (possibly) then do this. Open up your jack on your cubicle. Take a look and see which wires are terminated (wires meaning pairs) and which ones are flapping in the wind, or possibly terminated as well.
Let's say for example, that you are indeed dealing with an RJ14 jack (two pairs terminated, inner and outer pair) but you've got 4 pair wire. Go ahead and terminate the third pair (green) onto that jack. Now go back into your wiring closet and cross connect the green pair from your jack to the analog line that has been provisioned for you.
If I were you... I'd honestly get real familiar with what your system is (both structured cabling and PBX) before starting to mess with this stuff. This is a fairly simple task, but you don't want to mess anything up. Shorting pairs on some Definity linecards can cause problems.
If your jacks are modular, ie. they have inserts that are held in by a plate, go ahead and pick up a dual port plate, and get another CAT-3 insert (or CAT-5 or whatever if your wiring is different). Terminate your pair onto that to make it look cleaner.
If you've got any confusion still, let us know.
Phone dudess... wouldn't that be sweet. Never happens here, never ever.
Let's make this real easy.
Is your jack numbered like DW said? If so, go find that in your wiring closet and see what you're looking at. If the cable coming out of the wiring closet has four pair (possibly) then do this. Open up your jack on your cubicle. Take a look and see which wires are terminated (wires meaning pairs) and which ones are flapping in the wind, or possibly terminated as well.
Let's say for example, that you are indeed dealing with an RJ14 jack (two pairs terminated, inner and outer pair) but you've got 4 pair wire. Go ahead and terminate the third pair (green) onto that jack. Now go back into your wiring closet and cross connect the green pair from your jack to the analog line that has been provisioned for you.
If I were you... I'd honestly get real familiar with what your system is (both structured cabling and PBX) before starting to mess with this stuff. This is a fairly simple task, but you don't want to mess anything up. Shorting pairs on some Definity linecards can cause problems.
If your jacks are modular, ie. they have inserts that are held in by a plate, go ahead and pick up a dual port plate, and get another CAT-3 insert (or CAT-5 or whatever if your wiring is different). Terminate your pair onto that to make it look cleaner.
If you've got any confusion still, let us know.
Phone dudess... wouldn't that be sweet. Never happens here, never ever.
Hitechbuzz
Technical User
Hi Bronatuk
I would suggest that you get your bean counters to let you get some test gear. If you get a pair tester that will test network cables and outlets use this to check from the wall to your patch panel you may need to make up some leads to fit the right size jacks but that will save you having to pull covers off etc. look at some of the other forums in particular for the switch that you have.
you probably have sorted this one out now
Keep up the good work DW & Avaya(Novice?)
Cheers Brian
I would suggest that you get your bean counters to let you get some test gear. If you get a pair tester that will test network cables and outlets use this to check from the wall to your patch panel you may need to make up some leads to fit the right size jacks but that will save you having to pull covers off etc. look at some of the other forums in particular for the switch that you have.
you probably have sorted this one out now
Keep up the good work DW & Avaya(Novice?)
Cheers Brian
-
1
- #12
nodialtone
IS-IT--Management
If you have the Definity PBX with 4 wire digital sets, you may use the first pair for your analog connection, As a general rule when I want an analog and digital at the same workstation I pull out the white/brown pair and punch those down on the white/blue pair for the analog signal. The 4 wire digital sets use the following two pair for their signal. I use the white/brown so I can use a tone generator on both the analog and digital jack if I need to in the future.
Depending on the type of circuit pack installed, digital service can operate over one or two pairs. Either way, it's do-able. You could split the pairs behind the faceplate (which would be contrary to standards) or you can do as (I believe) Daron suggested and use an adapter (outside of the faceplate).
Jeff
Jeff
- Status
Similar threads
