per diem abuse

[langleymass]

I am on a travel job. Everywhere I go, I am given a per diem on hotels. Basically I am told: "Spend x dollars or less for your hotel."

I seem to be about the only person who actually takes this seriously. Other people basically take the attitude of staying wherever they want, in spite of what the per diem is. They often will say things like "options were limited."

For example, one guy even e-mailed me and said flat out that he didn't care whether he was under per diem or not, he just wanted to stay with Holiday Inns so he could accumulate frequent flyer points on United. I found a Ramada in the same town that was under per diem. In this particular case, Ramada was $51, per diem was $60, and the Holiday Inn Express was $79.

I have been with this company for less than three months and am already seriously looking to get out. There are just too many problems with this job for me to fix it.

What do you do when you feel like you are the only honest person in the company?

 

[EBGreen]

I agree that the employees should behave more ethically, but in reality this sounds like a policy issue. Per Diem is just that. An amount of money that you can spend each day. If the Per DIem is $60 and the company reimburses an employee $79 for the day then the policy needs to be revisited. Every time I have traveled under per diem resrictions it was understood that I could spend whatever I wanted but I would only be reimbursed for whatever the per diem amount was. I am 6'6" tall and often want to upgrade my rental car to get a little more leg room. If that takes me above the per diem, then the difference comes out of my pocket.

[red]"... isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway?! I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you are good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" - The Tick[/red]

 

[edfair]

You suck it up and live life to your own standards. Been there, done that.
You may be rewarded for it, you may not, but you'll sleep better for it.
It was 30 years ago and I got fired out of it but I did take some pleasure from the major abusers getting fired and the company going Tango Uniform over the political issues that led to the to the abuse in the first place.
At some point management will be held accountable. This is a symptom of larger problems.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[Dollie]

Unfortunately it's nothing that you can control. It is solely up to the company to control the per diem expeditures. We had the same issue come up at a former company, along with people claiming the full per diem amount even if they didn't spend it. The solution was simple. One pay period, those who went over were paid the per diem amount and not one cent over it. If they went over, it came out of their pocket. If they were under the amount, their receipts were totalled and that amount was paid. They were then all sent a letter (via regular mail as they were remote employees) detailing why their payments were what they were. They were told to stay within the limits and not abuse them, PER COMPANY POLICY.

It sounds like the company cannot, or will not, control their expenses. I see no harm in pointing it out to management, maybe including some generic comments like "one guy wants to do *THIS* so he can get his free airline miles, can we arrange to get miles at *this* hotel instead so we can keep expenses within the per diem limit?"

Per diems are (99% of the time) for people who travel. It is not an addition to their pay, and it is not any type of bonus. The company most likely instituted the per diem amount to try to keep expenditures controlled, then lost that control.

It's hard feeling like the only honest one in a dishonest situation. I hope you come out on top of this!

 

[chiph]

When I travelled, I would submit receipts for hotels, tickets, etc., knowing that I would be reimbursed for the exact amount. However, for meals I would always claim the full amount allowed.

Splitting hairs, I know, but I always felt I deserved something for being required to be away from home.

Chip H.


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[SQLSister]

Whne you feel like the only honest person in the company, it is time to start looking elsewhere as sooner or later you will be asked to do something dishonest. At that point you may have to choose between your paycheck and your ethics. Better to leave before it gets to that point.

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[MDXer]

Every company I have worked at that had a per diem addressed it in a way that you got the per diem regardless. In fact I was just on the road with the owner of my current company for a week We ate most meals together and he always paid when we did. included in my expense check was the full per diem amount. The reasoning behind this is that it is cheaper buiness wise to give me X a day for meals rather than worrying about totaling my reciepts and then trying to decide if me having a beer with a client should be allowed. I've worked for fortune 50 companies that were this way as well. The only time I have seen everything reciept based was in the consulting world and then because they can expense it back to the company.

Shoot Me! Shoot Me NOW!!!
- Daffy Duck

 

[langleymass]

I do get meal money. That's a scam. I have gotten as much as $60 per day. I usually just pocket that money. I certainly don't spend that much on food.

 

[pansophic]

It seems that the general concensus here is that you can't worry about what everyone else is doing. If you account for your actions in a way that you can live with, then you won't have many sleepless nights.

If you spend your time worrying about other peoples' morals and ethics you will give yourself an ulcer.

But if you feel that the company itself is acting unethically, then you really need to get out. As SQLSister said, one day you will be asked to choose between your job and your ethics and that is tough decision to make on the spot. Better to not put yourself into that situation at all.


pansophic

 

[langleymass]

I think the main problem with this company is that everything just seems to be complete disorder. There is no organization, no teamwork, and no cohesion. For other reasons besides this, I am already determined to get out. It's Lord of the Flies.

 

[gbaughma]

I've worked at places that work both ways: one place would just reimburse me for the receipts I had (they took care of the hotel and booking the rental car). Another place just cut me a check beforehand for my per diem. I would usually end coming out ahead by a few hundred dollars for 2 weeks (lord knows I couldn't eat $50 worth of food a day, and not have to spend my per diem on bigger pants! <lol>)

But, Dollie is right. It's the company not "cracking down" on their per diem expenses. I would fully expect that if I was sent somewhere with a set dollar amount, that anything over that would come out of my pocket.

But, it's really not your issue. If you like the rest of the job, don't get in the middle of the "other guys". Trust me, the bosses know when they are going overboard, and perhaps they are just giving the ones abusing the system "enough rope to hang themselves". If you like the job, play by the rules, and in the end you'll be waving good-bye to the folks who can't.



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

 

[Kjonnnn]

I don't understand the problem. I was an administractive assistant way back.

When you turn in your expense report, we reimburse you your per diem per day, plus incidentals WITH receipts. Anything over is at your expense(without a good explanation). So spend to your hearts delight, you're only get reimbursed so much.

Does you company not have expense report/reimbursement rules?

 

[monkeylizard]

I think the per diem is not the problem. It's the company's money, not your pay, that the others are spending. The company is owned by somebody who has seen fit to appoint the current management. If the current leadesr choose not to exercise appropriate basic accounting controls over cash and cash-equivalents, that's not your problem, and there's nothing you can do about it.

The problem appears to be more than the per diem. If you beleive mgmt is incompetent/disorganized/lost/whatever, then decide if you can keep working under that leadership or not. That appears to be the issue at hand.

Monkeylizard
Sometimes just a few hours of trial and error debugging can save minutes of reading manuals.

 

[biglebowski]

in the uk a big issue is with tax, if the company just gives you a set amount per diem the taxman will view this as a benefit and tax you on it. Most companies will either have a billback agreement or say you can claim/spend a certain amount per day.

Merry non denominational winter festival!!!

 

[smedvid]

I do not travel much now... but I have to admit... When I first started working for a Consulting company working with the EPA in 1987, I was taught all the tricks for getting the most out of the per diem. This included staying at hotels with free breakfast and daily complementry happy hour and snack food. This would cover the meals and put some much needed coin in my pocket.. I also stayed at Holiday Inns and Marriots to accumlate points.. as well as picking Delta for all aire travel. I considered it a perk and additional bonus for putting forth the effort and extra time for travel. In my job, I typically traveled off business hours.... I do not believe there were cases where I kept the difference in hotel bills, this was just straight cost as long as it was below the maximum for that area. The extra $$$ were very helpful when I as just starting out.. and I am glad I made the extra on food per diems. Another perk was to fly first class... I would select a air ticket, for peak hours, then see if a red-eye was available at first class for the same price or cheaper... The company paid the same amout or less and I got the luxury of 1st class, and double points.

Steve Medvid
&quot;IT Consultant & Web Master&quot;

http://www.saveourfarm.com

Chester County, PA Residents
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[langleymass]

Ultimately, it isn't my problem. However, I am starting to describe my company as a Lord of the Flies operation. There is no teamwork, leadership, or organization. Projects take longer than expected. People are inaccessible when I need them.

Back when I worked as a hotel receptionist, it often seemed like business travellers weren't particularly happy. I am starting to understand why.

 

[EBGreen]

You left the Service Industry to move into the business world? FOOL! Ah...Ha...Haa (evil maniacal laughter to go along with gleeful rubbing of hands and furtive glances)

[red]"... isn't sanity really just a one trick pony anyway?! I mean, all you get is one trick, rational thinking, but when you are good and crazy, oooh, oooh, oooh, the sky is the limit!" - The Tick[/red]