PC not booting, tried CMOS reset, reseat etc... 3

[wwwigz]

Hi, I'm running an Athlon 1500 on an ABIT KR7A-Raid (but not using raid drives) - I have 1GB DDR2, a Maxtor ATA133 120G (Master) and a Maxtor ATA133 80GB (Slave) I have a Geforce 6400 256MB video card, but no sound card at the mo.

The PC has been running a version of XP-Pro (SP3) and has been fully updated, running very stable for months.

Last night I was doing some film scanning and processing using CS2, and things got very slow. I realised that I'd not set the virtual Memory so decided to do a few other small tweaks while I was setting the Virtual Memory.

I used a selection of tweaks from this site:

http://www.techbargains.com/hottips/hottip12/index.cfm

I did the following:

- Reduced the screen resolution.
- Set the Unload DLL value to 1
- set Virtual Memory to 1800 (I have 1GB DDR2 2x512MB)
(RAM Memory tweaks)
- Disabled Page Executive
- Set system Cache Boost to 1
- I did NOT change I/O performance
- I also shortened the menu delay

I only mention the (what I think are) irrelevant tweaks becasue I'm trying to give you very helpful people the best picture I can!

I went into BIOS, and turned off the RAID (The one that searches for RAID devices at startup)

When I rebooted, nothing... well almost nothing, the Pc turns on, there is one beep, the CD-Rom & HDD's are accessed
and then the HDD lights go out.
The monitor initially turns on, but stays in 'standby' mode.

I tried a boot with minimal hardware, still nothing.
I have cleaned & reseated Video card and Memory sticks - still nothing.
I reluctantly reset the BIOS with the jumper short - nothing.
I also (even more reluctantly!) took out the CMOS battery and replaced it (not with new, but original battery) - This worked!
Well, kinda... it got me to windows (after a "checksum Error - loading defaluts" message at DOS boot screen)
windows & system tray loaded fully, but I right-clicked on My computer, it highlighted it, but nothing...
I COULD click on the systems tray icons, and I COULD use the StartBar.
BUT - after a minute or so of being booted & loaded, the Pc just hung...

I rebooted, and now it wont even respond to replacing the CMOS battery =(

Am I doing anything wrong?
Why is the PC eventually hanging when it does eventually load?
How can I get into safe mode (to reset the tweaks I did - if needed) when it wont even get past POST?

Help!

I have not tweaked my PC blindly, I hope I know what I'm doing.... but here, I obviously do not!

Any help greatly appreciated.

 

[kjv1611]

Yeah, that first one sounds pretty good. The seller has overclocked it, but that's not as big a concern with the Core 2 series of CPUs. They all are extremely overclockable when compared to the older CPUs for sure.

As for the X2 series, they are good as well. It's just that the Core 2 series is SO good in comparison that it isn't worth looking, I don't think. Now, if you got a super cheap deal no an X2 setup, and would save a bunch, then it'd be worth it for you, probably. Even that would be like going from an old desktop to a super computer. If Intel hadn't made such a huge step out with the Core 2 line, then the X2 line wouldn't seem so bad in comparison.

The second one, though it sounds good at first glance, is overpriced in my opinion. The architecture that makes it up just can't compete with the Core 2 stuff. Plus it's guaranteed to be older, and therefore more likely to crash.

Just be sure that you need to get your own heatsink/fan, it looks like, for the Core 2 deal if you get it. If I were you, I'd ask the seller if he at least has the original fan/heatsink that came with the CPU, assuming he bought retail. If he does, you could see if he can throw it in, as it doesn't seem like he'll end up using it anyway.

If you don't do any overclocking with your setup, then any heatsink/fan setup that is compatible with that processor will do fine. The only thing you'd need to keep in consideration is noise, since some can be loud. The Intel stock fans are amazingly quiet themselves, and seem very stable - big improvements from AMD and Intel even in that area.

As for the Core 2 E6700, it's a good CPU. If you get the whole deal at a good price, it's worth it. The E6750 replaced it, and is a little faster, runs cooler, and can be overclocked to higher levels. But the E6700 is still an excellent CPU, in my opinion. I just didn't get it, b/c for new ones, when I got the E6750, it was about the same as the E6700, so I figured why not.

But anything with a Core 2 series CPU (particularly Core 2 Duo/Quad) where you get the mobo - especially an Asus - and you get the RAM is a good deal. Asus boards are generally some of the best overall, anyhow. The memory doesn't really change the value very much b/c it's so stinking cheap anyway. Yeah, your £100 limit sounds pretty safe to me. The CPU alone retails for more than that, where you can find it:

http://www.google.com/products/cata..._catalog_result&resnum=1&ct=result#ps-sellers

Of course, if buying new, I'd go with the E6750 in comparison or even a newer one. The e6750 is when they introduced the 0 stepping model. That's when they started running even cooler, and in general had larger L2 caches if I remember correctly - it's been a while now - almost a year - since I did the upgrade.

One other thing you'll notice: The Core 2 series of CPUs have not in general been fast to drop in price. That's b/c demand is saying consistently high (pure economics). Whereas AMD has had to slash and slash their prices to stay competitive. Which is why the X2 CPUs will go for less.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[kjv1611]

Oh yeah, another thought:

Although it probably won't matter for you, one thing the Asus board is missing is PCI Express x1 or x4 slots. It is nice to have 1 or two of those for add-on cads, such as eSata ports if you ever intend to use them. However, I believe you can use x1, x4, and x8 cards in x16 slots, assuming you don't end up going with a SLI graphics configuration or something. And I'm kinda doubting you will.


--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[kjv1611]

Here are some charts from Tom's Hardware regarding processor performance:

http://www.tomshardware.com/charts/processors,6.html

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[BadBigBen]

If you do not find what you are looking for in the UK, then I would suggest you look across the big ditch and shop in the NL or DE (Germany), e.g. here in Germany a decent bundle (brand new) goes for around € 105 with a shipping charge of € 17,80 to the UK...

Specs:
Mainboard ECS GeForce7050M-M V 2.0
Chipset NVIDIA nForce 630a
Processor Athlon 64 X2 4200+ (2 x 2,2GHz)
Socket AM2
CPU-HS-FAN Xilence Cooler AM2 Solution
Memory 2048 DDR2 Samsung

with the British Pound (£1.00) equaling around 1.11 Euro that would be around £136 (rounded)...

http://www.arlt.com/pc+komponenten/...0+samsung+xilence+cooler+am2+cpu+kuehler.html

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[wwwigz]

Wow, I love this place! =)

K, I'll probably keep away from that second one, thanks for the heads up. In comparison, I should've noticed the inferior hardware, as I really am warming to this Core 2 Duo thang!

I've emailed the guy about the heatsink/fan, but if I win it for a decent price, then I'll probably buy a new one if he hasn't got one.

I did do a little overclocking on my old PC's, and although it's not a requirement, I may have a tweak when the system is settled. Seems I'm very safe with the core 2 duo option again!

I probably won't be going for SLI graphics - you're right!
BUT, I only have a GeForce 6400 256MB vid card, which, in a Core 2Duo system with lots of memory will be a bit underspecced, no?
So there is the possibility of upgrading to a PCI-E card.... all something to look into at a later date because I have half decent video card, and well - I need to bet the Mobo/chip yet!

Thanks for the Tables kjv, all very interesting stuff.
Thanks for your help, very enlightening to say the least!
And thank you Ben, again, very interesting deal, I may start looking overseas, but am still trawling thru various hardware sites in the UK. Places like Maplin, Misco, but I still have some to uncover before that Commando mobo is up on eBay.

Thanks all again.

I'll post up results soon of whether or not I can find out if it was the mobo or chip that's fried in the original setup I was posting about!

 

[kjv1611]

Oh, also, I didn't think to mention: if your old card is AGP, which it likely is, then it won't work on the new system. If it's PCI, it'll work. You'll want to go with PCI-X.

The Nvidia 8 and 9 series are still excellent performers, and they're much cheaper than the "main stream" on the market right now. You could get a lower end in one of those and have DX10 support, and decent performance.

I'd suggest going with an 8600 OR 9500 at the least. Their prices have come down a lot over the past half year, I suppose.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[wwwigz]

Ahhh, good point!
A major oversight on my part, thanks for bringing it up.

Yes, it's AGP4x - a GeForce 6200, 256MB, DDR2...

Depending on the board I get, there seem to be some GeForce onboard graphics that sem to be better than the GeForce6200.

but, depending on the mobo I get, and the price I get it at, I'll probably be able to afford a half decent one, like in your suggestions.

And I now have a great big box of computer bits n cases to flog on eBay, so after the new year, I'll bung it on, and hopefully raise some funds to upgrade the vid/sound/extra HDDs etc...

Thanks again for the help =)

Muchas Gracias

 

[wwwigz]

Right, and update for the thread...

Long story short, I ended up swooping in on a lot on ebay that said it contained a dualcore@1.6GHz, a core2duo@1.8GHz, one processor installed on an ASrock P4vm800 mobo. There was also a DVD/CDR/RW, 1GB Memory, 350W powersupply, floppydrive, video card, soundcard, cables, and a book....
It came in (with postage) for £51 - a bargain in my eyes, and for what I thought was 2 dualcore/core2duo chips...

BUT - I've got the hardware, and it's working (using it to type this) thing is, the chip on the mobo is a pentium 4@2.8GHz
The listing sad that a dualcore/core2duo is the chip installed on the board. but it is definately a pentium 4@2.8GHz - pentium 4's cannot be dual core, yes?

So, I've emailed the seller, will try and see whats goin on.

In the coming weeks I'll look out for a core2duo compatible mobo and then build up a core2duo system bit by bit. Find a mobo, max it out with memory, get some sata drives, a decent soundcard with breakout box (probably audigy2 platinum)...maybe setup for a high end SLI graphics or similar.

I'll post up with the results of my email to the seller - I really hope I do find the two dualcore/core2duo's...time will only tell.

Oh, and still no life from either the mobo or processor from the original post. I will try to test the processor in another board and see if I can get a chip going in the mobo. again, results will be posted (eventually!)

Seasons greets to all! =)

 

[kjv1611]

On your P4, yes, some are dual core, sort of. The Pentium 4D was the dual core iteration of the Pentium 4 just before the Core architecture came to market.

The P4D is okay, I guess, but it's honestly horrible in all aspects compared to the Core architecture. I'd think of it as Intel's "ME", as in MS Windows ME.

An easy way of telling if it's just a P4 or P4D is to look under the performance tab of Task Manager, and see if it shows one core or two. If two, it's a P4D.

All things considered, in at least most scenerios, I'd personally rather have a plain P4 than a P4D. The P4Ds tend to get much hotter, use much more electricity, and the performance benefit seems nill in real world usage. And I'm talking from an aspect of audio and video editing, so it's more than what the "average Joe" will deal with.

Yeah, you aint seen NOTHIN' yet! Either the P4 or P4D will be an improvement for CPU-heavy processes compared to the Athlon XP - most scenerios - especially the one you had.

And honestly, since you've got the P4 setup running, I don't know how much time I'd spend on the old one. It's gotten to the point now, my opinion, that it isn't worth the time to troubleshoot older hardware much, unless you just want to.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[BadBigBen]

kjv1611 - not quite, about how to tell if it is a P4D or P4... you need to remember that HT also does the two window core thingy...

best way to tell what CPU is installed would be to use a program, such as CPU-Z or Everest and SiSoft Sandra...

Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[kjv1611]

BBB,

How so? I've seen several P4s with HyperTransport, but no dual-core showing in task mananager (Windows XP).

And for instance, I see one regularly - P4 With HT, and one P4D (well, the P4D was replaced with a C2D machine), and it's always been the case with those 2 that the P4 with HT shows as single core, and P4D shows as dual core in Windows Task Manager.

Are you saying that the HT has to be enabled, but isn't by default?

I'd like to look at that some time just out of curiosity sake to see if it can be modified in the BIOS or via a Windows setting..

Of course, I'll agree that CPU-Z or similar will always be the best software method for verifying a CPU.

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[cdogg]

kjv1611,
HT stands for Hyper-Threading. This article from Intel clearly shows a Pentium 4 processor (not a Pentium D) with HT enabled showing up as 2 cores in task manager:

http://www.intel.com/support/processors/pentium4/sb/CS-017371.htm#3

Although it's a quick check to see if only one core shows up, there's no way to rely on the information when you see two or more cores in task manager.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Einstein
[tab][navy]For posting policies, click [/navy]here.

 

[BadBigBen]

Thanks Cdogg, for clearing that up, before I took a screenshot of my P4 HT 2.8ghz processor running on an MSI 6785 mainboard...

on some mainboards it is not enabled by default, the setting is in the BIOS...


Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[kjv1611]

Hmm, the 2 machines I was referencing, which I've spent the most time - at least, over a long period of time, are both Dell machines. I know that Dell seems pretty big on blocking some stuff out in BIOS. I'll have to take a look at it sometime - if I remember - out of curiosity. ;0)

HT = Hyper Threading. Duh! [ROFL2]

Hey! Yesterday was my first day getting back to work since last Tuesday, so that's my excuse, yeah!

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[BadBigBen]

Hey! Yesterday was my first day getting back to work since last Tuesday, so that's my excuse, yeah!

Hey, everyone is allowed to have an OFF-Day (off = not quite there) or two... but if you take a leave for more than a week, we might have to sent you back to school there... ;-)


PS: there is a Hyper Transport, but that is AMD...


Ben

"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."

 

[wwwigz]

OK, I used CPU-Z on the processor, and it still shows up single core P4@2.8GHz. Interesting little program there, good for checking the spec's on a processor.

Hmm, the P4 running here is running fine, I've tweaked the memory, but still wanna get another gig (only got 1GB at the moment)
Update on the eBay seller I bought the processors off?
Well, they seem to have made a mistake! (quite a glaring one!) - they advertised a C2D and a Dualcore, but only the (what she assures me is) C2D was there (aswell as the P4 on the ASrock mobo.)

She had put the Dual core processor in someone elses computer, so it was unavailable to me. I'm obviously a little miffed, but it's not the end of the world, as in reality, I'd only have another dual core to marry up to a mobo, or even sell on...anyways. I hopefully have the basis for a pretty good system, and am not that annoyed - she did send me some more spare bits as replacement.

Not much more to ask really, apart from your advice on a good mobo to get for the C2D I have sat here?
I want SATA, ATA133, but that's the only stipulation.
I suppose I'm trying to ask if there is a mobo that has proved it's worth, not particularly brand new model, but something that will last a few years, with expansion possibilities? a budget of say, £20-£60
Although recommendations of more expensive boards would be good too as they can often be found cheaper...


Thanks again and Happy New Year to you all!