PC clock gaining and losing time

[mike0680]

One of our CAD workstations is gaining and losing time.

One day it jumps forward by nearly an hour (over a 24 hour period) the next day it takes 5 minutes to count one. The network is well protected against viruses and regularly patched with the latest updates.

I feel it is more than likely to be the RTC chip on the motherboard, a Gigabyte GA8 KNXP, a fairly expensive piece of hardware, but has anyone ever come across a similar problem in case I am wrong.

By the way, the PC runs an architectural package, called STRUCAD, which regularly checks the time, so it is causing problems.

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[jdunderhill]

It could be the CMOS battery?

Have you tried swapping that out yet?

They are normally lithium available at local shop/store

Good luck

Jamie

 

[ceh4702]

Any motherboard you buy retail or OEM should not need a new battery for the clock before it is 5 years old. If it does you can try to replace the battery. Usually they are a pretty standard battery size and type. However, since this battery also keeps the CMOS/BIOS values active, you should get sime kind of warning about them if you turn off your computer, disconnect the power, (turn off your power strip), and then reconnect the power and reboot. If the battery was low you would then get some kind of message about the BIOS losing its settings or have other messages/problems. If you do not then it is probably not the battery.

Unfortunately I have had similar problems at work once or twice and no matter what we did, it did not solve the problem. My guess is it was just a bad motherboard, or the motherboard just got too old and decided to start having problems. Even electronic parts and circuits get old and ware out.

If the only thing wrong is the clock you could just ignore it. If it really bugs you and you purchased a Retail Motherboard and it is under the 3 year warranty, you could ask for a replacement from the Manufacturer. It would be too late to go to the seller of the motherboard in most cases. If they gave you a warranty make them follow through. If you paid for an extended warranty, from a retailer, make them follow through.

If you do not like my post feel free to point out your opinion or my errors.

 

[cdogg]

Ah, this is one of those "hot" topics that very few seem to recall the details of how it works.

When you leave your PC running, Windows is not checking the CMOS RTC actively for time. Instead, it runs its own software clock that is only synched when:
A. The system boots
B. A time change in Windows is made

Many PC's lose time when left on for long periods of time, because the "software clock" that Windows is running isn't very efficient. CPU cycles are often stolen from it when the system is not idle. Over time that loss gradually accumulates.

In your case though, it seems that the loss isn't "gradual". I suspect low resources to be the culprit. Try answering the following:

1) Does the time correct itself if you shutdown and reboot?
2) Do you leave the PC running for long periods of time?
3) What version of Windows?


~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind";
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[mike0680]

Jamie,
Thank you for your ideas, but the problem arises when the PC is running. I thought the battery only retained the CMOS setting while the PC is off. If I am wrong please let me know and I will try a replacement.

Unfortunately I have had similar problems at work once or twice and no matter what we did, it did not solve the problem. My guess is it was just a bad motherboard, or the motherboard just got too old and decided to start having problems. Even electronic parts and circuits get old and ware out.

CEH,
The motherboard is only 8 months old and was quite expensive (800MHz, SATA and IDE RAID). The main CAD program checks the time every ten minutes, so it is tricky to get round. So no problem in swopping motherboard apart from it now being discontinued. However, like you say I will have to swop the motherboard.
Many thanks and I did appreciate your post.

CDogg,
Very interesting points about the Windows clock.
1) Does the time correct itself if you shutdown and reboot?
No
2) Do you leave the PC running for long periods of time?
Yes
3) What version of Windows?
2000 Pro
I can't understand why it gains as well as loses time - could it be a virus?

Any ideas would be great before I eventually change the board.

Thank you all,

Mike

 

[mike0680]

RE-EDIT

Jamie,
Thank you for your ideas, but the problem arises when the PC is running. I thought the battery only retained the CMOS setting while the PC is off. If I am wrong please let me know and I will try a replacement.

CEH,
The motherboard is only 8 months old and was quite expensive (800MHz, SATA and IDE RAID). The main CAD program checks the time every ten minutes, so it is tricky to get round. So no problem in swopping motherboard apart from it now being discontinued. However, like you say I will have to swop the motherboard.
Many thanks and I did appreciate your post.

CDogg,
Very interesting points about the Windows clock.
1) Does the time correct itself if you shutdown and reboot?
No
2) Do you leave the PC running for long periods of time?
Yes
3) What version of Windows?
2000 Pro
I can't understand why it gains as well as loses time - could it be a virus?

Any ideas would be great before I eventually change the board.

Thank you all,

Mike

 

[mike0680]

CDogg,
Just a point, but an interesting one. Clock goes mad when PC is running and on from 8am - 5pm daily. However, from what we can see when system is booted up, although the time has not been corrected, it has neither lost or gained any time.
In other words, if the time was displaying 4.30pm when we closed at 5pm, the next morning at 8am, it says 7.30.

Mike

 

[edfair]

I've seen the problem with a bad clock crystal. Unfortunately there is no test.
In my case a 1/16" by 3/8" cylindrical case with 2 leads closely soldered to the M/B. Probably will have a holddown jumper midway along the case.
You can also have a bad clock. The test for clock problems is in CMOS setup. If it is changing there you have clock problems, otherwise transfer problems or OS problems.
And the above is based on other than Dallas components. Theirs have integrated stuff that should hold longer than you have had the board.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[cdogg]

...if the time was displaying 4.30pm when we closed at 5pm, the next morning at 8am, it says 7.30.

Mike,
Glad you tested this. It's important because right there, you can see that the RTC crystal on the motherboard is not the problem. Since time is only being lost while Windows is running, then you have a clear indicator that it's a software issue and not hardware.

I must not have been aware that newer versions of Windows synch with the RTC clock periodically, or at the very least during shutdown. What you might want to do next time you notice time loss is go to a command prompt and type time and hit enter. This will show you what the RTC clock is currently at and whether the problem is only happening in Windows.

If it's worth your time, I suggest you format a spare drive and reinstall any OS you want in that PC. Without installing any apps/updates or connecting the PC to a network, see if the problem persists with Windows running. I've got a good feeling that you'll find it working fine. In that case, it would be time to do some serious cleanup on the original drive.


~cdogg
[tab]"All paid jobs absorb and degrade the mind";
[tab][tab]- Aristotle
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[Freestone]

Is the PC in question running any NTP or SNTP type program(s) the other workstations are not? Are you in a domain environment?

 

[edfair]

There has been previous discussions about some programs that shut down interrupts momentarily which led to the loss of time on whatever OS it was running under. But that would be loss only.
How about shutting down other programs/tasks running in the background. Maybe one at a time to see if one of them is causing the problem.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[mike0680]

Ed,
My immediate thoughts would be the crystal clock as you suggest but as the motherboard is under warranty I will swap out the board if I can't trace it to being a software problem.
Your second post. - "Unfortunately" the PC has kept almost perfect time over the last 48 hours (+/- 2 minutes). However, we will be closing shortly and I will reboot the PC before I leave it running over the weekend without any apps running, then check on Monday.
Thanks for your ideas.

CDogg,
As I said to Ed performing normally for 2 days - if things want to go wrong, why can't they be consistent! However, windows time/dos time EXACT same to the second.
On Tuesday I am going to format another drive (need to order a SATA one today) and test as you suggest. If this doesn't work, it has to be the motherboard.
The installation of the apps are somebody else's problem so I hope it's the software.
Thanks for your continiued help.

Freestone,
We are not running any NTP/SNTP programs on any PCs.

Thanks guys,

Mike

 

[mike0680]

After running unattended (with no apps running) for 64 hours the PC hasn't lost or gained any time. However, in Windows Task Manager the CPU Time is running at twice the speed of the system clock - in 60 minutes it has gained 120. This is the case both with and without apps running.