patch cables 8

[jeffmoss26]

Okay guys-
I have noticed for quite some time that patch cables in computer and electronics stores are extremely expensive. I can make my own for about 20 cents, which is just the cost of the plugs. I get most of my cable for free (scrap). I have a crimp tool which was a one-time expense. I get pre-made cables when I need them anywhere in the range of 68 cents to a couple dollars. Honestly, does anyone know any real differences between my 68 cent 3-foot cable and the one that costs 15 dollars at CompUSA?

Thanks-
Jeff

jeff moss

 

[jlshelton]

I can't speak for the CompUSA cable, but most factory-made cables work right the first time, and home-made ones have greater chance of failure. Check prices at CyberGuys if you want inexpensive cables.

In business, your time is valuable. If you're on the job, you're costing your company $50 an hour or more. If you take 10 minutes to make and test a cable, you've spent nearly $10.

Note, also, that patch cables may be rated for certain speeds (CAT-5, CAT 5-E, CAT-6 etc) and the higher the speed, the harder it is for a human to reliably make the cable. Sure, it will test correctly with a test meter, but will it degrade the signal? A factory cable is more likely to keep the pairs properly twisted and keep the entire signal path clean.

Finally, there's a big difference between stranted and solid conductor wire. Stranted wire is used for patch cables because it is more flexible, and lasts longer. Solid conductor wire, pulled in walls or ceilings, is great, but it breaks after 20-50 bends. If you are getting scrap, is it solid wire left over from long cable pulls? Then it's "crap" for patch cords.

Around the house, where your time is your own, and no one will complain a year later when it fails?? Go ahead. On the job where customer satisfaction matters, where gigabit ethernet must work reliably, and where your time is valuable - buy your cables from a reputable mfr.

Best wishes.

 

[Servamatic]

That was the best dissertation I have seen on here about patch cords so far.. I like the "scrap is crap" notation...lol

Good quality patch cords should cost about $2-3 for a 3-5' Cat 5e cable, there is no way I can make one for that price considering the cost of labor.

CompUSA and other retailers make a killing on patch cables, buy them online or at a wholesaler locally. Wish we could sell a 3’ cords for $15.

One key point that was omitted, a factory made cable has a warranty.


Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[skip555]

my son was a computer tech at best buy for awhile

they let employees have thing for cost + 5%

I was amazed at the cord markup , I needed a 16'usb cable , on the rack it was something 36.00 his cost 8.50

"scrap is crap , is so true "

I was at a new customers site the other day , patch panel had all new pre-made cables , on the floor was a pile os scrap crap made ones ...I had to smile ,somebody finally got smart.

when I took the cisco networking academy the instructor was head of IT at the local tradeschool . He gave the usual speil about always check your patch cords , then he went on to say how much trouble they had with them

I asked if they used premade or made their own , made their own , all the techs were trained to make them .

I suggested this might be a source of his problems , he disagreed , but hey he was the instructor

 

[DTSMAN]

This place is very reasonable and they ship the same day you order. They carry all the colors in patch cables and keystone jacks.

http://www.cablestogo.com/

Bo

Kentucky phone support-
"Mash the Kentrol key and hit scape."

 

[jlshelton]

Oops - typos abound. It's "stranded", not [green]"stranted"[/green]. Thanks for the compliments.

 

[jeffmoss26]

I agree that stranded is the way to go, but performance wise, is there a difference between the pre-made cables from the distributor, and the cables from CompUSA (which are usually Belkin). Also-If I do use 'scrap crap' cables, they are for my personal use at home, where things don't change much.

jeff moss

 

[Servamatic]

As long as they are from a reputable manufacturer, I doubt seriously if there is ANY difference, they certainly are not 4-5 times as good, thats for sure.
Category rating generally means it is compliant with the standard, which is what is important.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[BitFuzzy]

15.00? heh heck I buy 100' patch cables that that price.

As far as difference for the most part there shouldn't be much except for perhaps the quality of the cable (amount of gold used etc)

Most Retail chains "hope" you don't realize you're over paying

 

[Servamatic]

There won't be any difference in the amount of gold used. FCC regulations require a minimum of 50 microinches of gold in the contacts or there are fines and penalties to the manufacturer.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[BitFuzzy]

[ FCC regulations require a minimum of 50 microinches of gold in the contacts or there are fines and penalties to the manufacturer]

and who says you can't learn something new every day

Thanks for the info Servametic.. I didn't know that

 

[daronwilson]

... minimum of 50 microinches of gold

WOW, that is interesting, I did not know that. Somehow though, I suspect that may only apply to US manufacturers. And, if this is the same FCC I have worked with before, they have almost no time or staff to dedicated to enforcing their rules (at least in the radio spectrum). Interesting concept though.

thanks

Daron J. Wilson, RCDD

 

[Servamatic]

Hey Daron

You will find quite a disparity between enforcement of FCC regs on installation practices and manufacturing, at least from what I have seen.
They are more willing to go after a single manufacturer than enforce regs they write regarding installation practices.
Just look at the Cat 3 minimum requirement, you still have quad wire being installed although it is illegal.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[wires]

Just look at the Cat 3 minimum requirement"

I think you may be confusing the FCC with ANSI/TIA/EIA-570-A . I don't believe that standard has the force of federal law.

The 50 micro inches of gold is a FCC part 68 requirement for the connection of Terminal Equipment (TE) to the Public Switched Telephone Network (PSTN). I am fairly sure these requirements only apply to telephone equipment since the FCC does not regulate wired LANs.

Most of Part 68 has now been "privatized" and with the current tilt in Washington I doubt anyone is going to be fined. Most enforcement in this area is done by a lawsuit type process.

If you want to know more:

http://www.fcc.gov/wcb/iatd/part68faqs.pdf

http://www.part68.org/SecureDocuments/TIA-968-A-Final.pdf

As to the original poster's question there is no doubt that cables of all types are a high markup item for most retail stores. Part if this is due to the wide array of cables requiring a large display area vs low volume of sales.

I still make a good number of cables since I am fast and have a nice tester. I like a good looking job and sometimes custom length cables are required. Scrap is not crap as long as you use high quality parts and are competent.

A warranty on a $3 part is worthless since it will cost you more than that to redeem the warranty.

If it takes you 10 minutes to make and test a cable you are in the wrong line of work.

 

[Servamatic]

No, I am not confusing anything. FCC regulations require a minimum of Cat 3 to be installed on all New construction and retrofit.

Sorry I don't have the documents handy, but you can google "FCC Cat3 Wiring" and you should see a plethora of sites quoting it, if not the actual FCC Doc.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[wires]

http://www.fcc.gov/Bureaus/Common_Carrier/Orders/1999/fcc99405.txt

"10. We envision that consumers may enforce this rule by prosecuting claims against builders and contractors that have utilized inferior wiring in new construction."

Wow - that order has some teeth!!!

Seriously, what they are saying is that you can use this order in court if you want to sue a contractor for not using at least cat 3 wire for connecting to the PSTN. Unless there is something published later installing quad wire does not even rise to the level of a misdemeanor on the legal/illegal scale. Hardly the force of federal law.

Personally I think you would have to be a moron to do an installation using anything less than cat5e these days. However I don't see any likely scenario where you would face criminal penalties for using quad (unless you used it for something other than telephone, like a tow rope, garrote or a 110v electric heater circuit!).

Look at the date. After 2000 all discussion of this topic seems to have stopped. I doubt that the administration installed in 2001 has any interest in pursuing any of this.

Some building codes have adopted ANSI/TIA/EIA-570-A and any enforcement is more likely to come from that direction than from the FCC. Currently the FCC seems more interested in morality, deregulation and turning public spectrum over to the highest bidder.

Still, all this FCC talk only has to do with telephone equipment since they don't regulate wired LANs and therefore patch cables used with wired LANs.

I had resolved to not get involved in any more discussions of purchased vs site built cables but the concept of "illegal" drew me out of my shell. I appreciate Richard's posts even though he sometimes uses a "voice of god" approach to law and standards. I support both the law and standards when they are applied appropriately. However I don't think TIA-568B applies to the real world of telephone wiring or that you can count on the FCC for gold.

My guess is that there are some 8 conductor patch cables out there with less than 50 micro inches of gold on them and the FCC won't go out of their way to do anything about it.

 

[Servamatic]

Wires, I think it is you who is quite confused. I never said anything about criminal violations, I said there are fines, that is civil, and that was about the gold contacts, not Cat 3.
As you correctly pointed a consumer could take a contractor to court and sue them over that issue. Now as a contractor (not implying you are one) if that doesn't cause you to sit up and take notice I don't think you have any business contracting.

I am glad you "appreciate" my posts, I wish I could say the same for yours, but I have very little patience for the "this is the real world" or "this is the way we have always done it" attitudes. Both of those attitudes show an unwillingness to accept and adapt to an ever changing industry, and ultimately in providing a less than deserved installation for clients. But that’s probably the difference between us, I believe wholeheartedly in doing the best job possible for my clients, and not cutting corners. I have turned away jobs where clients insisted on doing things below par because they think it will save a couple dollars today. Not the type of work I want my name associated with.

So you may feel free to insult me (you’re not the first), but I will always promote the correct way of doing things. If it causes a few more installers/contractors to reconsider how they do things it is worth it because it elevates the industry as a whole.


Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[daronwilson]

Interesting thread.

Richard, there are often more than one way to do things that is 'correct'. It seems you leave no room for anyone else to interpret customer need and standards if they don't agree with yours. I understand your experience and knowledge is superior to all of ours (in your opinion), I'm not sure eactly which one of the trinity you are (Father, Son or Holy Ghost) but those are the only perfect beings I was aware of.

I'm quite sure there are many point we agree on, and even more that we don't. It is unfortunate, but respect is either earned or demanded by position. You certianly have not earned mine, nor is your position one that warrants my respect.

There are many industrial control systems that require us to make specialized lengh ethernet cables. Often they must be made in short order since the cost to the client while the process is down can be $40,000 and hour. I'm going to field make that cable, test it, and make them happy. If I order a 33' patch cable, it is likely made by some minimum wage employee at a work bench and then tested before shipping. It is situations like this that require us to meet the 'intent' of the standard and complete the job professionally.

Your comment regarding the "real world" is complete 'scrap'. Unless you under the influence of some mind altering drug, you should be 'in the real world'. In my real world, ACE hardware still sells quad in the telephone section with jacks. People still buy it, use it (yes, actually, it does work), and manufacturer's make so suppliers can sell it. Real world. Almost every voice/data vendor sells 4 and 6 pin USOC jacks, someone must be using them...

Anyway, it's always nice to discuss options instead of your "my way or the highway" approach IMHO.



Daron J. Wilson, RCDD

 

[Servamatic]

It's too bad you feel that way Daron, but frankly I could care less. I will continue to do things the way I see fit.

I have never said YOU have to do it my way, I have simply offered my opinions in what I believe is the correct method. As I stated above, if it helps a few installers reconsider how they things, great. You are always free to choose how you do things.

So why don't you leave the personal attacks where they belong, in your head, not on the forum. Seems we have had this conversation before, but you always like to degrade my opinions in here, I have come to expect that from some.
Since I seem to acquire a few stars I assume someone out there believes my opinions to be worthy of consideration.

You know, Microsoft gives certain employees the title "Evangelist", not because they think they are superior, but because their function is to try to get people to adopt what they believe is the right way to do things. Just because you don't agree with those opinions doesn't make them any less worthy of consideration to others. Nor does it mean you need to degrade them in public.

Enough of this silliness, time to move on.

Richard S. Anderson, RCDD

http://www.servamatic.net

 

[wires]

Microsoft gives certain employees the title "Evangelist""


Ah, The ones who have fully partaken of the Kool-Aid...