Past tense of Stop-Loss 1

[rjoubert]

I saw the trailer for the new movie, "Stop Loss", last night. In one scene, there is an Army sergeant telling Ryan Phillippe's character that he has been "stop lossed" or "stop lost." Which is correct for the past tense of stop loss? I did a quick search on Google for both spellings, and I saw references to both.

In case the definition of a military stop loss helps to clear things up...

STOP LOSS means extending a military person in the Guard or Reserves, or on active duty, beyond what their normal separation date would be. Those who join the military agree to this provision under paragraph 9c of the enlistment contract states:

In the event of war, my enlistment in the Armed Forces continues until six (6) months after the war ends, unless my enlistment is ended sooner by the President of the United States.

 

[CajunCenturion]

In addition to its military definition, stop loss is also a gambling term.

I think you can make a case for either, but I would say "stop lossed", because I don't think it should be treated as an inflected form of some variation of the verb 'to lose'. Rather, I think 'to stop loss' should be treated as a verb in its own right, and I would use standard rules for forming the past participle.


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[jebenson]

Shouldn't the phrase be hyphenated, since it is two words being treated as one (to stop-loss)?


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[rjoubert]

jebenson, I agree about the hyphen. That's how I originally typed it, but changed it when I found the military definition without the hyphen.

 

[CajunCenturion]

A hyphen does make sense.

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[AnotherHiggins]

stopped loss"
I typed that as a joke, but now that I see it, it doesn't seem half bad.

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[ClulessChris]

John,
I'd agree with with you and would have posted it myself, had you not done so first.

"stopped loss"
I typed that as a joke, but now that I see it, it doesn't seem half bad.

Never knock on Death's door: ring the bell and run away! Death really hates that!

 

[ESquared]

Is it truly correct to say "I will stop loss you"?

 

[SantaMufasa]

..."stopped loss"...

I, too, agree with this construct. If my daughter enlisted the help of a child-care provider to look after her children, I would expect her to say:

I arranged for the children to be watched over.

...not...

I arranged for the children to be watch "overed".

...Or...

I arranged for the children to be cared for.

...not...

I arranged for the children to be care "fored".

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[I provide low-cost, remote Database Administration services: www.dasages.com]

 

[jebenson]

I know, for the past tense of stop-loss, why don't we just say "screwed" and leave it at that?

I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson

Arrrr, mateys! Ye needs ta be preparin' yerselves fer Talk Like a Pirate Day!

 

[CajunCenturion]

I think we should keep in mind that "stop loss" is specific term and has a specific meaning, whether it be in a military, gambling, or financial context. That's why the hyphen really does make good sense; because as jebenson pointed out, it's a single term, and should be treated as such.

The question about what is the proper past participle of this verbed noun is a good question. When used as a verb, to answer ESquared's question, it would only make sense in a context where the base noun makes sense, such as the three areas mentioned above. And further, when one looks at the verb based on the hyphenated noun, "stop-loss", I think it's much easier to see stop-lossed as the past participle.


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[ESquared]

So you're saying that "I will stop-loss you" is correct?

 

[SantaMufasa]

Part of our problem may be that we are attempting to "stretch" stop-loss into something that it is not. Wherever I look, scholarly sources indicate that stop-loss is typically an adjective and more rarely a noun that implies a stop-loss order. Nowhere can I find a source that validates stop-loss as a verb, (thus implying a past participle) especially as a transitive verb such as "I will stop-loss you".

So, like Erik, I remain unconvinced, yet open minded (if someone can build a referenceable, scholarly case).

Mufasa
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[CajunCenturion]

The term stop-loss is now being used as all three parts of speech: adjective, noun, and verb.

==> So you're saying that "I will stop-loss you" is correct?
I would say that it is correct in the following context.

Private: Sir, my enlistment ends next week.
Officer: Sorry, but I need you for this mission.
Private: But it's time for me to go home.
Officer: Sorry, but I will stop-loss you.

Private: Sorry dear, I won't be coming home next week. I've been stop-lossed.

==> if someone can build a referenceable, scholarly case
If you do a Google search on the term "stop-lossed", you will get thousands of hits. I got over 18,000, and I will be the first to admit that that doesn't necessarily make any of them right. Further, I cannot say that any of them will meet your standard of being a referenceable, scholarly case. Nor can I say that they any will not. What I can say with reasonable confidence say is that numerous citations of the verb stop-loss are now in the language corpus.

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[SantaMufasa]

So noted.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
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[CajunCenturion]

So, like Erik, I remain unconvinced, yet open minded (if someone can build a referenceable, scholarly case).

How about this?
See thread: thread1256-1427577
Specifically, the post dated: 16 Nov 07 16:34

Does that meet the standard?

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[ESquared]

So in proper usage it is a "stop-loss order." In formal writing one could say, "I've been subjected to a stop-loss order."

I agree that "I've been stop-lossed" is colloquially okay, since "stop loss" has become a compound word single term distinct from the two-word concept of stopping loss. (e.g., a grandmother is a mother's mother, but a grand mother is a mother who is wonderful, though I'm not saying these share the exact same grammatical construct as the words in question.)

Also, notice that the stressed syllables between the two are different. "I was listening to you, too" is only distinguishable from "I was listening to U2" through syllable stress. It seems to me that the stop-loss we've been discussing here has "stop" stressed and if used to literally mean stopping loss, either "loss" would be slightly stressed or both words would have the same stress. I can't find a hard and fast rule for stressing syllables, but have noticed that the stress does differ when we mean the word as a single term or as a modified noun. Another example: "look at the sun shine" vs. "look at the sunshine."

To speak in the modified-noun meaning (as in "I've been stopped loss"), we could avoid the term entirely and say something like this: "command has decided to stop losing personnel, so I am on active duty indefinitely." (I don't know the correct military way to say such a thing, please forgive me.)

I see parallels to theft prevention language for retail stores. Stopping loss to them would immediately mean controlling shrinkage, that is, reducing the amount of theft. Store managers could naturally say "I stopped loss completely in March." But I doubt they would describe it as "this item was stop-lossed yesterday when we caught someone trying to steal it." Instead they'd say, "I helped stop loss yesterday by catching a thief."

So another alternative in the military scenario paralleling this construct could be "they've stopped loss, so my enlistment has been extended."

Just to muddy the waters.

 

[CajunCenturion]

It quite common for adjectives to become nouns in English.

He is tending to the sick.
The poor will always be with us.
That item is a collectible.

Each of the italicized words can be an adjective in its own right, but would you not classify each of them as nouns in the above sentences? In fact, aren't they many similar adjectives that function formally as nouns?

Why the hesitation with allowing the common process in English to apply to stop-loss?


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[CajunCenturion]

Erik, if you agree that "stop-loss" has become, and I quote, "a compound word single term distinct from the two-word concept of stopping loss", then why would suggest a two term alternative ("they've stopped loss, so my enlistment has been extended.") that completely ignores the distinction?

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[SQLSister]

I believe the correct term would be "I've been drafted."

"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared