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PASSWORDS 8X24 & CICS 3

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eddiephones

eddiephones

Technical User
Nov 11, 2007
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NOTE: Inherited a 8X24(DR-5) and a CICS systems...Able to get into ADMIN PROGRAM ONLY on both systems. Can not do SYSTEM STARTUP on either one? The installer password has been changed from the default 266344. Will changing software cartridges help? Any ideas about resetting both systems?
 
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Check out:

Norstar Debug Procedure :
faq799-3014


Are you trying to reset passwords only, or are you trying to take both systems all the way to factory defaults and dump all saved programming ?
 
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If you've got lower release software for both systems that will default the programming. If not you can open the data cartridge on the DR5 and short the memory caps through a 100 ohm resistor to default. The memory cap for the CICS is on the motherboard.

Brian Cox
 
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exsmogger: Do you mean the Cartridge itself,or the sleeve it fits into,saw nothing inside DR5 cartridge,but 2 round with black components marked C1 & C15 about the size of a nickel inside the Sleeve section! Also did you mean a momentary short with the resistor,or have it in place and power up?
 
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The "sleeve" contains a pc-board (about 1/2 the interior size of the sleeve) that is populated with volatile memory chips. The capacitors (I think they are like 5.5volt 1 Farad) provide the "back-up" power to maintain the volatile memory when the cartridge lacks power from the KSU. I think the older 8x24 DR levels were one-piece cartridges and relied on a capacitor on the KSU mainboard, and I am not sure, but I think the DR5 first came in one-piece and then later two-piece assemblies -- both relying instead on cartridge capacitors.

When you bleed the capacitors down with the resistor, all settings in the volatile memory are lost. Kind of like removing the old CR2032 battery from a PC and losing bios and date values.

From what I understand, when you power it back up by putting it in the KSU, the programming in the non-volatile memory software cartridge itself will see the volatile memory in the sleeve contains no register values and thus you are back to factory defaults.

Do not leave the resistor in place when you re-assemble the cartridge and power it up, you are creating a one-time shunt to create a controlled short to bleed off the charge in the capacitors. Also, before re-assembling, I would throw a meter across the capacitor pins to be sure the charge was near zero (definitely want less than 0.5volts). Depending on the condition of the capacitors, you may need more than a couple seconds of contact to take the charge down. Two 1-Farad caps in good condition have a surprising amount of juice, for their size.
 
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misseditbythatmuch: The DR-5 cartridge I have here,on the sleeve circuit board are Two(2) both 5.5V@1.5 Farad. Since the one I have is OK with Config,is it possible if the DR-5 on site is a 2-piece cartridge could I just put my sleeve in and maybe wind up with config pswd from my sleeve and keep the same programs from their DR-5 Insert?
 
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First, I will confess that I am at the limit of my technical knowledge of the m8x24, so you will likely find one of the masters in this group to be your best source.

I have done what you propose, but for different reasons (trying a software upgrade without losing user settings).

You may not accomplish your intended goal with that course of action. While you would be keeping the same programs (assuming both software cassettes are the same build code), you would not be keeping the same user-defined variables.

Software (non-volatile firmware, no user data stored) cassette mates into the data cartridge (volatile memory, user defined variables) and then mates in the reserved 824 KSU slot(processor).

The KSU creates dialtone and operates data ports and serial busses (like if you add a 12x0 or something) and passes data sets using Nortel's protocols (like the KSU talking to a voicemail)and is your basic switch.

The software cartridge holds a Nortel-defined bundle of "features" that rely on instructions in the form of a processor program, for example, the KSU may detect some Nortel device is broadcasting a signal on port 225, but the software cartridge is needed to know it is a RAD, to recognize it as such, and to create the communications instructions needed to let the RAD talk to the right part of memory to see DN configurations, or passwords, for example.

The data cassette has the user-defined variables in its volatile memory. If you want set 221 to have line appearance for trunk 004, then that info is stored in your data cartridge.

So, if you swap sleeves or data cassettes, what you wind up with is user-defined data from KSU "A" being used to define variables on KSU "B". Unless they are identical units, you really have not gained much, even if you have the password for the other cassette. There will be a lot of re-programming. In addition, you still have a sleeve that you cannot use (the one for which you do not have a password).

Shorting the capacitors with a resistor is certainly not a habit to get into, but the practical effect is the same as pulling the cartridge and leaving it on a shelf for a month (or more or less, depending on the age of the capacitors) and letting time cause the discharge and drop the user-variable settings from the data cassette. At least then you will be rebuilding from factor default baseline. I have done the shorting solution on 6x16 DR5 cartridges and on one 824 DR5. Each time got me back to factory defaults (including passwords).

Again, I must defer to the experts. For what it is worth, my understanding at DR5 is that password data sits in the data cassette and not on the KSU mainboard.
 
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The sleeve contains the programming, the insert is read-only-memory. The 2 black caps in the sleeve are what needs to be shorted through a resistor for about 10 seconds with the power off. When you put it back in the 824 and power on it will boot up in default mode.

These caps can retain memory for up to a year, so just leaving it on the shelf will take a lot of patience!

Brian Cox
 
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missedbythatmuch: I tried getting into the Norstar Debug procedure. I got as far as SHOW memory dump and when address came up on LCD it only allowed for one digit to be put in,and when i put in a digit & show nothing happened.
 
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When putting in the memory address you'll press a button until you see the character you want. For example to display C you'd press the number 2 button 4 times. To move to the next character press the # key. When the full address is displayed press the NEXT arrow to the right.

Brian Cox
 
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Not sure how else you do it on a CICS, but on an 824, if you have a copper expansion card, simply unplug the entire copper expansion card, power the system up. It will then revert to default programming. Power it down, and put in the copper card. It will see the copper card upon power, and you will be at default from before.

John Panzer
 
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exsmogger: So its like putting in NAMES in the Voice mail & using the # to move digits! I had a DR-3 cartridge & changed the installer pswd to 123456. I then went into the Debug procedure and it showed me the new paswd 123456..This is a beautiful tool and I'm hoping this will work on the site of the 8X24 &CICS to retrieve installer Passwords there. Thanks to Missedbythatmuch and you giving me access and how to use the DEBUG Procedure!
 
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I've been reading this thread. I have a complete guide on the DEBUG section. It's taken me a few years to do as it contains the Hex codes for the UK & NA systems. I had lots of help from curlycord & I'd be happy to help out where I can. Just don't put any email address on this forum!.

All the best

Firebird Scrambler
Meridian Programmer in the UK

Useful Nortel forum at
If it's working, then leave it alone!.
 
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Just like the "A" team! Don't you love it when a plan comes together! I just want everyone to know that using the Norstar Debug Procedure on site I was able to get the changed installer pswds for both the 8X24 & CICS Ksu's & changed them back to CONFIG: Kept all original programming What a great day........THANKS AGAIN
 
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