Passing SAT 5

[Dimandja]

For non-US readers, SAT (Scholastic Aptitude Test) is used to assess the College readiness of High School graduates. I think I got that right. I should also add that this test is being contested by minority groups as biased (but that's another story).

Here is a sample. Spot grammatical errors (or lack thereof) from the underlined:

It is likely that the opening of the convention center, previously set for July 1, would be postponed because of the bricklayers' stride.

 

[CajunCenturion]

I prefer SQLSister's verbiage as well.



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[Dimandja]

CC, are you sure the word "verbiage" is the one you want to use here? Because I don't consider her post as such.

 

[CajunCenturion]

If you are using the 'too many words' definition of verbiage, then no, that is not my intent.

If you are using the 'way in which a thought is expressed in words' definition, then yes, that is my intent.

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[Dimandja]

"Verbiage may indicate observation, but not thinking." --W. Irving.


The word "verbiage" is always derogatory in French (where it came from).

By all indications "derogatory" is its connotation in English as well:

Verbiage:
========
language which is very complicated and which contains a lot of unnecessary words:

- "His explanation was wrapped up in so much technical verbiage that I simply couldn't understand it."

http://www.freesearch.co.uk/dictionary/verbiage

Webster's 1913 Dictionary
=========================
Definition: \Ver"bi*age\ (?; 48), n. [F. verbiage, from OF. verbe a
word. See {Verb}.]
The use of many words without necessity, or with little
sense; a superabundance of words; verbosity; wordiness.

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/verbiage

Computing Dictionary
====================
Definition: When the context involves a software or hardware system, this refers to documentation. This term borrows the connotations of mainstream "verbiage" to suggest that the documentation is of marginal utility and that the motives behind its production have little to do with the ostensible subject.

http://www.hyperdictionary.com/dictionary/verbiage

1. The use of language that is wordy or needlessly complicated, and often meaningless.

Thesaurus: verbosity, repetition, loquacity, periphrasis, circumlocution; Antonym: succinctness, economy.

http://www.allwords.com/word-verbiage.html

 

[CajunCenturion]

SQLSister - If you are in any way offended by my use of 'verbiage', then please accept my apologies. I hope you accept that I simply meant your choice of words.

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[AnotherHiggins]

Dimandja,

Without looking very hard for a definition, I give you the following:

....
2 : manner of expressing oneself in words : DICTION

and under Diction:
1 obsolete : verbal description
2 : choice of words especially with regard to correctness, clearness, or effectiveness

I think that, given the context, CC's usage was clearly not offensive.


[tt]-John[/tt]
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[Dimandja]

>I think that, given the context, CC's usage was clearly not offensive.

I know he was not trying to be offensive. But the word is derogatory. What you provided is a 'short' description of it.

There are many derogatory words that have innocent looking definitions. "Verbiage" always carries a derogatory baggage.

 

[ESquared]

I never knew verbiage carried derogatory baggage, and I've always been a voracious reader.

Perhaps it's a regional thing. In the meantime, given that some definitions do not negative connotations, I will continue to use it with this meaning and trust context to convey it clearly.

-------------------------------------
• Every joy is beyond all others. The fruit we are eating is always the best fruit of all.
• It is waking that understands sleep and not sleep that understands waking. There is an ignorance of evil that comes from being young: there is a darker ignorance that comes from doing it, as men by sleeping lose the k

 

[RodKnowlton]

I like SQLSister's phrasing, as well. It's concise and it also scans better than the corrected original.

I have to disagree, though, about "set for July 1" modifying "convention center" in the original example. Both of the adjective phrases "of the convention center" and "set for July 1" modify the subject "opening".

- Rod

Mr. Morton is the subject of this sentence, and what the predicate says, he does.

 

[SQLSister]

Cajun, I wasn't offended. You clearly meant the second definition of the word. And anyway, I'm pretty thick-skinned, so I probably wouldn't have been offended even if you had meant the first definition.

Questions about posting. See faq183-874

 

[Dimandja]

>Perhaps it's a regional thing.

I wouldn't be surprised if the US, for example, tried to pass it for a good word. Weirder things have happened to languages here.

But, I have asked some people and consulted some sources (in more than one language), and the result is the same: the word is derogatory.

Of course, "verbiage" is variously described as "diction". But, what kind of diction?

 

[ESquared]

I've got to proof my posts more carefully. Silly mistakes!

-------------------------------------
• Every joy is beyond all others. The fruit we are eating is always the best fruit of all.
• It is waking that understands sleep and not sleep that understands waking. There is an ignorance of evil that comes from being young: there is a darker ignorance that comes from doing it, as men by sleeping lose the k

 

[CajunCenturion]

Even if one uses verbiage to mean verbose, how does it become derogatory?

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[CajunCenturion]

Thank you SQLSister.

Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[CajunCenturion]

A thought came to mind.

Dimandja - Are you using degrogatory simply to mean critical?

Good Luck
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[ESquared]

[unserious fun at CajunCenturion's expense]

Main Entry: degrog
Pronunciation: (")dE-'gräg
Function: verb
Inflected Form(s): degrogging; degrogatory; degrogged
1 : To reverse the effects of intoxication. To become undrunk.

[/fun]

-------------------------------------
• Every joy is beyond all others. The fruit we are eating is always the best fruit of all.
• It is waking that understands sleep and not sleep that understands waking. There is an ignorance of evil that comes from being young: there is a darker ignorance that comes from doing it, as men by sleeping lose the k

 

[CajunCenturion]

LOL - Very good.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Dimandja]

>Even if one uses verbiage to mean verbose, how does it become derogatory?

Are you serious? But, go ahead, change the meaning if you like. But, better yet, use a better word.

 

[CajunCenturion]

Dimandja - I am quite serious with the question. I don't see or understand how 'verbiage' is considered a derogatory term in English. You said

The word "verbiage" is always derogatory in French (where it came from).

I'll take your word that the corresponding word in French is derogatory. However, the word originally comes from Latin 'verbum', which means 'word'.

If you're not willing to answer the question, I understand, and respect your decision to decline.

Good Luck
--------------
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read FAQ181-2886
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[sleipnir214]

I don't think verbiage necessarily implies derogatoriness.

[wait...<quick online dictionary lookup>...okay, at least one online dictionary agrees with me that "derogatoriness" is a word.]

Although most dictionaries do use some variant of the word "excess" in their first definitions of verbiage, the also include as additional definitions the more general meanind of "choice of words". And I honestly can't say from personal experience whether I've heard it more often in the derogatory mode or not.



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