Pagemaker 7.0 vs InDesign: Comments? 2

[hohriver]

Well, Adobe is at it again....confusing the issue and never providing germane details at their website.

I was surprised to discover 'Pagemaker 7.0' as a new product listing. Drilling down on the 'features' gives you absolutely nothing to work with; they are, more and more, providing 'reviews' from other firms who have endorsed their software, instead of specific information regarding the particular product. Great marketing, lousy information providing.

So who can tell me about Pagemaker 7.0? Is it really an upgrade to Pagemaker 6.5.whatever, that I currently run? I was under the impression that Adobe was not intending to revise Pagemaker, so am confused to see this version release. And how might it compare to InDesign? Has InDesign overcome the gaping error of being unequipped to provide saddle-stitched print material yet?

Could someone who knows kindly clear up this muddied trail that Adobe is so fond of generating? I would appreciate it.

Frankly, I'm about to give up on Adobe entirely and simply jump over to Quark Xpress and the Mac for my prepress layout and design needs.

But that option is so much more expensive than just acquiring another Adobe product which might do the job.

Who knows about these things?

 

[carlow]

Hi,

I'm a fervent user of Pagemaker because it has the natural feel of a programm that is written for the mac-platform. I don't like the frames-style of InDesign or Quark. Pagemaker has always been a programm that leaves a lot of freedom to the user of a layout programm.
I to hadf to use InDesign or Quark for specific jobs, but was always pleased if I found the same possibilities (or nearly...) in my favorite programm. For someone like me the coming of the pdf format as the standard for the printing and press industry gives me the opportunity to stay on working with my PM.
Now it doesn't matter in which programm you use to create your layout, as long as the possibilities of creating a pdf format from your lay-out programm is good and reliable. Ans as I am told the 7 version will be much better in outputting pdf-formats (Acrobat 5 and Distiller 5 are packed with the new release).
Another good thing is the seamless flow of all of the Adobe products, it isn't important anymore to create tiff or eps files from illustrator or photoshop, this means a lot of time and disk space saved if you have a big job on your hand.
The rest I will see when I will have installed it.

.. grillhouse

 

[zefir]

Grillhouse: I don´t think it´s really a good idea to place
PSD in PM. The files are probably larger than TIFFs or BMPs
or EPSs. The import of not flattened images will certainly cause
problems.
But most important is this: If you give files with placed
PDFs to a Service Provider, he needs to have PM 7 . I am sure
that many people (like me) are not interested in the upgrade.
First, I would like to get some more informations about really new
features, which may be useful for me (smoothed curved lines).

http://www.adobeforums.com

----Gernot

 

[carlow]

Zefir,

I constantly place pdf files that I get from publicity agents in my 6,5 version; create a ps of the magazine, put this ps through the distiller and create a pdf file of let's say 48 pages with the ads and images. So my printer doesn't need to have PM, because I deliver a pdf file that he uses to create his printing plates. No worry at all.
Pdf is so interesting for a service provider because it is platform and program independent. And about placing a psd file in another adobe application it works flawless. I often place psd files in Illustrator, (which gives me the opportunity to keep any psd transparency and other Photoshop effects in my file. I embed the psd in Illustrator and make a pdf from this illustrator file. No worry at all.
.. grillhouse

 

[hohriver]

Thanks to grillhouse and Zefir for these insights. I would like to mention that I found a small 'footnote' at the Adobe products table site which suggests using InDesign over PM 7.0 for prepress readiness of publications.

I have since determined that Quark Xpress will run on my Windows ME edition, and that Quark provides an 'incentive' discount for Pagemaker users to switch over to their software. The discount is nearly $400 off software which normally runs around $900. I think I'm going to chance it and make the leap to Quark.

Again, thanks for the help.

 

[zefir]

Grillhouse: you are right about the PDF. One mistake in my letter:
"Giving PSD to the Service Provider ....", not PDF.
PDF to the S.P requires, that everything is absolutely correct.
No last minute changes. Final CMYK images, using the appropriate
press profile. For the Distiller the imagesetter PPD .
Altogether not easy, IMO. ----Gernot

 

[carlow]

Well

I never said that it is easy, you must keep your thoughts with the job you're doing, and that is one the crucial points of being in the DTP business. You're not only a layouter, you're also combining a lot of the technical jobs that we're done by a lot of people in the past on your own. The more the software is elaborated the more know how is necessary to make a good procuct that is not only graphically OK, but is also weel trimmed for the printing flow. On top of that people think when you make your layouts or graphical designs by computer that it is an easy and fast job. So the deadlines and demands of the customers are far too exagerated, and if you don't wan't to loose customers you'll have to go with the flow.

Sorry but after a hectic day this had to be said. See you all tomorrow;

.. grillhouse

 

[shhhh]

Just to say I have worked on (i.e. the actual software development side) of both products (InDesign, all versions, and PageMaker 7)

This new version of PageMaker is good, but I have to admit that InDesign 1.5.2 is better.

This is intended to be the final version of PageMaker.

InDesign, coupled with InCopy makes a good combination, and most PM users I know that have started to use InDesign like it.

Yes InDesign has a good Prepress function, which is not difficult to use.

The main updates are better handling of PDF creationg, and importing more file types...

Lets face it, PM looks old.. InDesign doesn't.

 

[carlow]

Sorry,

But InDesign looks Quark, and I hate Quark.
InDesign was just a new way to make it Quark a little bit more difficult and quark was used because the ppd's on a lot of imagesetters and other film and printing devices worked better with the ppd's of quark and the printers and service bureau's like to work with one ppd file and won't change to a ppd that is written for pagemaker.
If this concurrence thing is important to have a lookalike for another succesfull programm it stinks. Pagemaker is a program that has all the advantages of working in a Mac environment, ease of use, an open interface that doen't mean you have to go in certain modes to do something.
I hate InDesign it is bad.

grillhouse

 

[SnowWolf]

Sorry to contradict you grillhouse regarding the ppds. PPD files are writen for the printer/imagesetter etc. by the firms who manufacture this devices. You can use one and the same ppd with Quark AND Pagemaker. It is just a "postscript printer description" file descriping the options and abilities of the output device, nothing more, nothing less.

SnowWolf

 

[carlow]

Sorry,

When you take a ppd that was created with quark idea behind it. Often the percentages of colours you use in your pagemaker document are 20 to 30 percent darker than you defined those percentages. This is due to a different colour management in Pagemaker. I know it cause I had the problem with a monthly magazine for 3 months. Creating eps files and placing those files in Quark solved the problem.
Grillhouse

 

[JakeR]

Dear friend, I'd like get you some info about the 2 question. Many thanks.
(1) Is Pagemaker faster than InDesign?
I find the InDesign1.5 very slow running on my Pentium233 PC (128M RAM, 20G hard disk). Could you tell me if Pagemaker is faster when running on a PC than the InDesign? The InDesign request too much resources, I do not like it very much even though I often use it. Because I do not have other useable program.
(2) How to make the PDF file size small?
I often produce PDF file. the file size is often a trouble. The InDesign produce a really big PDF file (using Distiller). If you use PDFWriter the PDF file may lose something. You may find 2 page PDF file in Adobe's website is almost 2M. It is not acceptable if I need to post such a PDF file on a website.

 

[carlow]

Hi

The speed of a programm is totally dependent of the computer you are working on, and the complexity of your document. If you include placed files (tiff, eps,...) in your document your file size will increase and the programm will run slower. The cpu of your system and the amount of ram are important for the working of the programm. So if you use a complex programm like Pagemaker or InDesign or Photoshop... the speed of your processor is typical of the speed the programm works. The ram bit is important because programms use this ram to put their different programm layers in. So if you don't have a lot of ram the processor uses temporarily disk space and swapping to your hard drive to try to accelerate the speed of the programm.

The second bit of your question has to do with the compression of the files placed in your document.
If you use the PDF for placement on the web you don't have to use a small compression rate. People view the net with a monitor and the resolution of a monitor is only 72 dpi. So if you compress the tiff's or jpeg's to 100 dpi or something like that you will have a resulting file that is much smaller than the 2 MB. You must know that the more graphical elements there are on a page the larger the PDF will be.

I hope this answers some questions

grillhouse

 

[CynicDisillusion]

Hi all,
I am new here but I have been a long time user of Photoshop and Illustrator. I am just getting into page design (mainly because i was trying to print out biossness cards on Kodaks prefforated sheets and i could not make a good template to do this on either) I have Two questions.

1) What is the main differences between InDesign, Pagemaker and Quark (I am going to buy one, might as well get the right one)

2) Do any of them support vector formatting from Illustrator so I dont loose any quality of my images from Illustrator.

Thanks
CynicDisillusion

 

[carlow]

Hi

All the mentioned layout proramms can place vector images. You must save them as an epsand the place them in the programm, they don't loose any quality.
The main differences of the mentioned programms is totally personal, although there might be a financial aspect too.
Goand do some testing of a programm to get used by the interface and the possibilities of the different programms, this is the biggest issue. If you don't feel comfortablewith a certain way of woring in one kind of programm go for another. it is not because people say that you have the expert tools in your hands that the result will be an expert layout. Some programms need a lot of extra's. Quark needs all kinds of extensions to run things other programms do flawlessly.
I always stayed within a certain workflow I like, for me that is Photoshop, Pagemaker, Ilustrator, Acrobat.
Another big difference is the price.
If you purchase Quark it will cost you about 1.900$, when a new version becomes available the upgrade will cost you almost as much, and all the extensions must be upgraded too, another ouple of $. So if you think you are going to make enough money and you like the way o working in Quarkgo for it.
Otherwise choose one of the other mentioned and look in the shop for their differences and see what you wan't to do with it.

I hope this helps.
grillhouse

 

[Guest_imported]

how the heck can i open a adobe indesign file in pagemaker 6.5 (export, convert, some solution....)

i'm really in trouble!

 

[carlow]

Hi Merdasman,

There are no conversion utilities as far a I know. The only way I see a solution is to open up the InDesign document and also Pagemaker, tha you do the old copy and paste trick. Copy the text in Indesign and then recopy it in Pagemaker. If you don't have the two programms I see no solution.

Sorry
grillhouse

 

[ikonpro]

As a user of Pagemaker and InDesign the question of one VS. the other is like comparing chicken to cabbage.
They are both layout programs created by the same company.
They both put out products for high end press.
BUT....
PageMaker is for more book type products with fewer graphic ablities. It is proven over the years it worth and has it share of the market. It doesn't have to compete with a sister product to keep alive. Plus the PageMaker 7 is not the end of the line for a product as used and liked as it is.
InDesign was created for the graphic intense creator which needed the ablity to create a book format and have high in press output. Plus InCopy is only for the Mac. You can not get it for the PC.
Just as with any product you will find those who are loyal and will never leave PageMaker. Then there are those who try InDesign and will never go back to PageMaker. It all depends on what the person needs, likes, and finds enjoyable.
If you look at PageMaker and Illustrator you will find that InDesign is a mixture of the two programs.
It has a lot of the features that people have been asking for over the years.
Nether is trying to take the place of the other.
Nether is competing with the other.
Plus when you do an upgrade of a program you don't try to create a new program. You update your program to the advancements of the computer world. It is to fit the needs of today with upgrades of today.
The InDesign VS. PageMaker does make for good conversation.
Enjoy all

 

[artdirectoreric]

To extend that conversation, and to point out something that really ticks me off, is the idea that InDesign is for "High-End" work and Pagemaker is for "Business."

Me and, I'm sure, others like me have been doing "High-End" esign on Pagemaker for years. I find the whole thing rather insulting.

 

[carlow]

One of the things I wan't to ad to this conversation is that most people only use 30% of the possibilities of a program. So where is the high end and where is the business end

grillhouse