Overcoming Bad Writing Habits 9

[BJCooperIT]

We once discussed the importance of spelling and grammar here at TT. I cannot locate that thread, but in general we all agreed that our professional images suffer from bad habits in our writing. We also agreed that spell checking and proofreading are important.

The purpose of this thread is to provide tips to help make us aware of and overcome common mistakes. A few months ago I discovered that there was a word which I was mispronouncing. This was not a new word, indeed it is commonly used. I was embarrassed when I realized that I have been making this mistake all my life. That set me to thinking, what other "mistakes" do I make of which I am unaware? I always struggle with punctuation and know that I could use a few pointers there.

Since this site is dedicated to helping other professionals, I would like this thread to provide tips that may be helpful. If you read a something you already know, then good for you. If you benefit from it, even better! Hopefully, each one of us can find some little bad habit we can overcome.

I used

http://www.merriam-webster.com/

as a reference. Here are 3 common mistakes that are on the top of my hit parade:

THAN vs. THEN
THAN: "...taken as the point of departure in a comparison expressive of inequality... easier said than done"
THEN: "next in order of time... first came the clowns, then came the elephants"
I remember this by thinking "than" compares 2 items

TO vs. TOO
TO: "used as a function word to indicate movement or an action or condition suggestive of movement... drove to the city"
TOO: ": BESIDES, ALSO... sell the house and furniture too"
I remember this by thinking if it is excessive, there are too many O's

DANGLING PREPOSITONS
Remember prepositions? at, to, for, with, in, on...
I had an English teacher who would automatically give a failing grade to any paper in which she found a sentence that ended with a preposition. This would include something like "What did you go to the store for?". I am forever rewriting sentences to avoid this mistake.

How about it? Give us your recommendations.

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[GwydionM]

Prepositions dangle OK

Considering that English has beekeepers who can't recognise an individual bee among the bees, whereas shepherds recognise individual sheep among the sheep, we can hardly claim English is a rational language or that common rules need be observed.

There are no real rules. Shrimp as sea creatures are singular and plural. A small human can be a shrimp, but several are shrimps. Logically, hot gospellers should speak of 'bringing in the sheeps', but do not.

To take up wuneyej's point, I think we'd get the point across by saying 'our office is replacing its computer mouses'. To say 'our office is replacing its computer mice' sounds more awkward, at least to me.

Of course US and British habits differ, and some of your habits have gotten to be part of ours. 19th century Britons had trains that ran on 'metals' rather than rails.


A view from the UK

 

[flapeyre]

In the army, privates eat in the general mess while generals eat in a private mess.


"When once you have tasted flight, you will forever walk the Earth with your eyes turned skyward, for here you have been, and there you will always long to return."

--Leonardo da Vinci

 

[sleipnir214]

GwydionM:
I once read an article on yourdictionary.com which stated: "It is incorrect to say that English borrows from other languages. It is more correct to say that English actively mugs other languages to rob them of their linguistic treasures."

There are rules to English. There are just lots of them, many of them based on inconsistent and contradictory rules also borrowed from other languages. Take octopus, which English borrows from Latin. Were octopus a Latin-original word, octopi would the correct pluralization. But the Romans borrowed the word from the Greeks. Under Greek pluralization rules oktopous is pluralized oktopodes. However, English general pluralization rules would make the plural octopuses. This gives English speakers the choice of octopi, octopoda, and octopuses -- and there are people who support each of the possible pluralizations as the correct one.

Then you have the English-speaker's tendency to play with the language. I recall reading many years ago that some international symposium of octopus-studying scientists decided that in scientific circles, the official plural of octopus would be octopi, provided that all the animals referred to in the pluralization were of the same species. Should the speaker be talking about animals of differing octopus species or talking about multiple species of octopus, the plural would be octopoda.

Similarly in Chile in 2000, the 4[sup]th[/sup] International Penguin Congress decided that penguins should be referred to collectively as a waddle of penguins, provided that the penguins were on land. If in the water, penguins should be collectively referred to as a raft of penguins.

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TANSTAAFL!!

 

[GwydionM]

In the British army, a major is two ranks above a lieutenant, but a lieutenant-general is one rank above a major general.

We also have 'Public Schools' which are fee-paying and would be called 'Private' anywhere else. But that's because there used to be three sectors: State, 'Public' and 'Private', with the 'Public' fee-paying schools subject to some sort of overall supervision whereas anyone could start a 'Private' school. You get a passably good account of one such place in George Orwell's 'A Clergyman's Daughter'

------------------
A view from the UK

 

[sleipnir214]

GwydionM:
Oddly, I actually know why it is that in the UK (and the US) army a lieutenant general outranks a major general.

During the Thirty Years War and during the reign of Charles I, the rank of the commander of the English army was "Lord General". The second-in-command was the "Lieutenant General", and the third-in-command was the "Sergeant-Major General". The rank-name was later shortened, but the order of the ranks remained the same.

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TANSTAAFL!!

 

[wuneyej]

GwydionM...thanks for the reply. I was leaning towards "mouses", but wasn't sure.

Something else that has often troubled me is the lack of an adjective form for the noun "integrity". Wouldn't it be nice to say, "He's such an integritous man" instead of "He's a man with a lot of integrity"?

 

[rosieb]

GwydionM
UK too, where I work we tend to go for "mice". But, personally, I prefer "mouses". It's a hard one, with no correct answer.

 

[chiph]

Another word whose plural is the same as it's singular is brick. It's equally correct to say "It's a brick house" as "That house was made with brick".

Sleipnir214 is correct - English will steal words from other languages about as often as people will just make them up. In comparison with some other languages (Russian, which is frugal with words), English is very rich, and you are able to get your meaning across with great subtlety. Or totally make a dog's breakfast of it!

Chip H.


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[jsteph]

A stone is a stone, a handful of stones is a handful of stones, but a truckload is a truckload of stone, not a truckload of stones.
--jsteph

 

[BJCooperIT]

A vs AN
A preceeds a word that begins with a consonant sound: A computer
AN preceeds a word that begins with a vowel sound: An egg

In summary, I definately definitely feel well good about this thread and it's its content. I agree with Winston Churchills' Churchill's quote "That is the sort of nonsense up with which I will not put". put." However, it would be better stated as "I will not put up with that nonsense". nonsense." I feel poorly bad for those who do. If its it's worth doing, its it's worth doing good well. This is a motto I can live with. This is a motto with that which I can live.

ItsIt's better to author draft a an error-free post then than an a post riddled with mistakes. For each poster, irregardless regardless of there their nationality, I know that their there is a need for hasty composing when their they're at work. However, is it asking to too much too to expect them too to proofread than then.? It is alright all right to be a little obsessive about accuracy. I would be lyeing lying if I told you that I was were not a bit obsessive myself.

We may be discrete discreet when admitting our mistakes, butt but it is important to be honest with ourselfs ourselves. You're Your careers are mobile, not stationery stationary, and without self-improvement you're your resumes are not worth the stationary stationery they are printed on on which they are printed.

Just because we are IT people does not mean we through throw out our dictionary's dictionaries' knowledge. I can except accept that some may not agree with me. Accept Except for the professional nature of

http://www.tek-tips.com,

I may might agree.

I am just about throw through. I am not going to lie lay down any more rules. I will lay lie down for a bit and I will feel better then than I do now. I need to loose lose this headache and possibly insure my belt is lose loose. Perhaps my nucular nuclear family will bring me a drink, I.e. e.g. coffee, hot tea, cocoa, toddy, cider
[ul][li]coffee[/li][li]hot tea[/li][li]cocoa[/li][li]toddy[/li][li]cider[/li][/ul]

It looks like I have reached the end and I can safely say that I think that that about covers it!

[sup]Beware of false knowledge; it is more dangerous than ignorance.[/sup][sup] ~George Bernard Shaw[/sup]
Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000

 

[infinitelo]

Spelling and grammer are important, and your right a little polish would not hurt any of us. In answering posts, it is my opinion that responders should stick to what they are comfortable with. Harder to read sometimes but it does give you insight into the poster's education and/or background.

I was wondering, when you comment your source code, do you use good english? In college we were encouraged to use a template for source code that would give a good explanation of the code, I don't remember being graded on spelling or grammer at the time. This is becomming a larger issue with the advent of open source code.
If you examine coding books, sometimes on the hello world demo you will see all lower case no punctuation, ect.. others will have very good grammer.

if it is to be it's up to me

 

[ChrisHunt]

Infinitelo: You mean grammar!


More on lie/lay: Lay is also used when talking about the verb "to lie" in the past tense, but only when it's the "lie down" form of the verb. When it's the "tell an untruth" form, the past participle(?) would be "lied". E.g.

"I lay in bed till 10 this morning" ChrisHunt lied, wishing it was true.


On the general point, I don't think rigidly correct English is important on a chatty forum like TT, though it must be helpful to speakers of foreign languages.

Given the context of this particular forum - "My own development as a professional" - I think it is important that you spell, punctuate and grammate (I just made that word up) properly when writing less ephemeral text - web pages, user documentation, etc. Failing to do so (in my opinion) implies a lack of attention to detail.

-- Chris Hunt

http://www.mcgonagall-online.org.uk

http://www.napitalia.org.uk

http://www.leicesteryha.org.uk

 

[SQLSister]

grammate, I like that word, I'll have to use it.

I do agree that in any professional documentation, you absolutely should not use casual English. Capitalization is important and so is punctuation. Both are there to aid the readability of the sentence. In software comments, abbreviations should only be used if they are generally accepted business abbreviations which do not need definition not your own personal shorthand.

 

[CajunCenturion]

I wonder which verb form would be deemed most acceptable for the noun grammer.

To Grammerate or To Grammerize

I don't either are words, but I tend to lean towards grammerize??


Good Luck
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As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[CajunCenturion]

Of course, the spelling should also be correct.

To Grammarate, or to grammarize.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[CajunCenturion]

After doing a little research, I discovered that grammates is a word, but it is a noun. Grammates are the rudimentary principles of grammar.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[Stella740pl]

CajunCenturion,

Lye ... a white powdery substance
Yes, this one I learned while was looking for something starting with "ly".

infinitelo,

...when you comment your source code, do you use good english?
Yes, I try to use reasonably good English in the comments.
I had to recomment (re-comment?) a number of legacy programs while updating them, for several reasons.
First, I couldn't stand to look at all those glaring mistakes.
Second, it took me time to understand what they meant by these comments together with the antique code, so I needed to write it down as clear as possible, so I wouldn't have to go through this again.
And third, I will forget very soon myself what, when, and why I did one thing or another, so I need to document it sufficiently, even if in the code only.

I would like to give stars to many of you for interesting posts, but since a thread can accept only so many stars, and many of the posters already got some, I will give mine to sleipnir214, for octopus/octopi/oktopodes/octopuses/octopoda.

Stella

 

[lionelhill]

(1) No one has mentioned reading yet. The original question was how do you recognise and get out of your bad habits. We all tend to emulate what we see. Reading (widely) gives you a chance to see good writing in lots of contexts. I notice the best writers I've met have also been the most enthusiastic readers.

(2) I find it hard to judge how far to "correct" someone who asks me to read their work. Over the years I've read things for lots of non-native colleagues. Some spoke (and wrote) very beautiful, grammatically correct English, but it felt very Italian or Germanic (or whatever). Italian English is beautiful, artistic, the stuff of poetry, and it feels wrong to change it. Germanic writers complain that when I split their long sentences into several short ones I lose part of the flavour. They're right, but there are things you can't do in English that you can do in German (translation is always an approximate thing). And then there are the people who speak beautiful American but would like to speak English. I'd hate to wreck someone's US English and create a hybrid ("Gee, what a swell rubbish bin&quot.
How do other people get the balance?

Interesting thread.

And for what it's worth, I feel most of the non-english-speaking writers here write very well. Speakers of other languages bring a lot of good things to the English language.

 

[GwydionM]

CajunCenturion, the song is 'My Bonnie lies over the ocean', it is not very poetic to have more than one of them. And someone who did would say 'My Bonnies lie over the ocean' (I lie to them both all the time).

I think also the song is a kind of lie, as well as a lay, if that's the correct technical term. One of a lot of Scottish Jacobite and Irish Catholic songs that disguised political sentiments as if they were personal. See

http://www.draftymanor.com/bart/sp_tra10.htm.

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A view from the UK

 

[CajunCenturion]

Thank you GwydionM for pointing that out. Need to be more careful in my proofreading, allowing an extra s to creep in.

I'm not sure what you mean when you say,
I think also the song is a kind of lie, as well as a lay". Perhaps you could explain that statement?

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein