My company is just getting verified through Avaya to Sell the IP Office and below systems. What are some of your opinion's on it? I am a certified NEC technician that wen't to work for another company. Any imput would be greatly appreciate. (problems, quirks, works solid ,piece of junk, etc.)
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Opinions?
- Thread starter dontworx
- Start date
My problem is that the name of the of the product starts with 'IP' and the IP part is the weakest point of the product. How many 'serious' IPO IP implementations are there in the field ?
As long as you use digital or analog phones the IPO is not doing very bad if correct configured with good firmware. But in that case there are a lot alternatives to the IPO.
I have no experience with the BCM but we replaced IPO installations due to huge problems (even after visits from Tier 3 & 4 engineers).
I expect stability from the IPO. New features are great as long as they don't interfere with the basic functions & stability of the system.
As long as you use digital or analog phones the IPO is not doing very bad if correct configured with good firmware. But in that case there are a lot alternatives to the IPO.
I have no experience with the BCM but we replaced IPO installations due to huge problems (even after visits from Tier 3 & 4 engineers).
I expect stability from the IPO. New features are great as long as they don't interfere with the basic functions & stability of the system.
- Thread starter
- #22
IP Handsets have advantages & disadvantages.
Only use IP handsets where there is a genuine need ( not just because they are available).
Examples of good places for IP Phones:-
Remote Workers - they look & behave a if they are connected directly to the switch.
Out Buildings - eg wherehouses, it could be more cost efecteve to run 1 data link (especialy if it is a long fibre run)
Crouded offices, where there are not enough points for bothe Voice & data to every desk (a short term solution to save the cost of running additional points)
BAD Places:
Receptionists
Fixed Desk users
I am sure there are other examples but basicaly Use the right tool for the right job.
Only use IP handsets where there is a genuine need ( not just because they are available).
Examples of good places for IP Phones:-
Remote Workers - they look & behave a if they are connected directly to the switch.
Out Buildings - eg wherehouses, it could be more cost efecteve to run 1 data link (especialy if it is a long fibre run)
Crouded offices, where there are not enough points for bothe Voice & data to every desk (a short term solution to save the cost of running additional points)
BAD Places:
Receptionists
Fixed Desk users
I am sure there are other examples but basicaly Use the right tool for the right job.
stuzzy
Technical User
- Mar 24, 2004
- 49
Ok, I stand corrected on the forums for Magix, Partner, Definity. They do exist. I never needed them though because those products are well supported and well documented.
As far as the documentation goes, maybe it has improved but in comparison to the documentation of their other switches it is weak. I need to know in depth how a feature works and interacts with other features (considerations and constraints). When I look up call forwarding I don't need to see "forwards calls to another location", I know what forwarding means, I need to know how it interacts with other features. Instead I've got to figure out how it behaves by myself most of the time. When I say "well documented" that is what I mean. They don't have a problem doing this for their other switches I don't see why it's so difficult with this one. Yes it is getting better all the time but it should be right the first time.
I like Avaya, really. Partners rock, Magix are stable and reliable (seen a 2 cabinet legend take a shower from a water main and only replaced one p.s.) and the definity has always been what I considered to be the industry standard when it comes to enterprise solutions. I feel that Avaya has a very high bar when it comes to quality and stability and this product does not meet that bar, and hasn't since release.
I do think it will in time, meet that bar, but how long will it take, and will something better come out in the meantime?
As for training, I am ACA on IPO, magix, partner, and got some definity classes under my belt so I'm not exactly untrained.
As far as the documentation goes, maybe it has improved but in comparison to the documentation of their other switches it is weak. I need to know in depth how a feature works and interacts with other features (considerations and constraints). When I look up call forwarding I don't need to see "forwards calls to another location", I know what forwarding means, I need to know how it interacts with other features. Instead I've got to figure out how it behaves by myself most of the time. When I say "well documented" that is what I mean. They don't have a problem doing this for their other switches I don't see why it's so difficult with this one. Yes it is getting better all the time but it should be right the first time.
I like Avaya, really. Partners rock, Magix are stable and reliable (seen a 2 cabinet legend take a shower from a water main and only replaced one p.s.) and the definity has always been what I considered to be the industry standard when it comes to enterprise solutions. I feel that Avaya has a very high bar when it comes to quality and stability and this product does not meet that bar, and hasn't since release.
I do think it will in time, meet that bar, but how long will it take, and will something better come out in the meantime?
As for training, I am ACA on IPO, magix, partner, and got some definity classes under my belt so I'm not exactly untrained.
stuzzy,
"something better come out in the meantime", i think you mean ipo hardware with communication manager software.
afaik g150 media gateway (which in essence is ipo soe) should come out with cm3 release next january. and i heard rumors from our local avaya guys that this software will be ported to "heavy" ipo too. you know, i'm pissing steam when thinking of it. having the ability to use ip403 as a small remote office AND still have all those cm features and survivability as well... i love this idea.
as for training, unfortunately i cannot say anything about magix and partner. these systems are not officially sold in our country, and i see no point in taking courses on the products one'll hardly ever see.
"something better come out in the meantime", i think you mean ipo hardware with communication manager software.
afaik g150 media gateway (which in essence is ipo soe) should come out with cm3 release next january. and i heard rumors from our local avaya guys that this software will be ported to "heavy" ipo too. you know, i'm pissing steam when thinking of it. having the ability to use ip403 as a small remote office AND still have all those cm features and survivability as well... i love this idea. as for training, unfortunately i cannot say anything about magix and partner. these systems are not officially sold in our country, and i see no point in taking courses on the products one'll hardly ever see.
We need to remember that the IPO is not your standard PABX. This is a product that is cutting edge of convergence in the SMB market, and to be honest as Morrack says Engineers installing need more experience than "only telephony, but active directory, exchange, domains, IP routing, firewalls, VPN's, etc. etc. etc." As every IPO application requires that you have had strong experience in this field.
I strongly feel half the problems with installations that go bad and present what people think are bugs are in-fact lack of experience or in-depth knowledge on the product from the installing point of view.
Yes the software that AVAYA release requires a lot more extensive testing both by NPI and AVAYA in general they are addressing this, The delay of V3.0 proves this and talking to the NPI guys they have had enough of it too. They would now rather delay the release of software than release with known bugs just to keep the product management team happy this has happened one to many times in my eyes!!! and MUST stop for the IPO to be the product AVAYA want it to be.
When faults/Bugs do come up I feel the support from AVAYA Tier 3 and urgency in regard to customer’s issues is simply not good enough. To say that the fault may be fixed in the next maintenance release, is beaching the faith that AVAYA promote to the channels world wide.
The problem is they have committed to the market to release a new build every 6-9 months. This I understand will change.
I have been installing/training and been providing Tier 2 support for IPO for the last 5 years, I have ACA, CSA etc etc and have in-depth experience with all builds of software from pre 1.0 releases I have seen it all trust me !. And at times I lose the faith too. It frustrates me as it is promoted as a cutting edge product however it cannot perform basic functions that other PABX's in the same market as the IPO seem to be able to do as standard. On the other hand it has some very strong up points but CCC/MMM is certainly not one of them in my eyes.
As far as training goes I do agree with comments above that some official accenture trainers are out of date with current software releases and issues that are in the field. This is only because they are not exposed to it everyday. This is the same with most IT based courses as the instructor knows the courseware and has not always had the field experience that installing techs get on a day to day basis.
An so is unable to relay this is there courses, I guess this is where I am lucky!.
Anyways that’s my say on the matter,
I strongly feel half the problems with installations that go bad and present what people think are bugs are in-fact lack of experience or in-depth knowledge on the product from the installing point of view.
Yes the software that AVAYA release requires a lot more extensive testing both by NPI and AVAYA in general they are addressing this, The delay of V3.0 proves this and talking to the NPI guys they have had enough of it too. They would now rather delay the release of software than release with known bugs just to keep the product management team happy this has happened one to many times in my eyes!!! and MUST stop for the IPO to be the product AVAYA want it to be.
When faults/Bugs do come up I feel the support from AVAYA Tier 3 and urgency in regard to customer’s issues is simply not good enough. To say that the fault may be fixed in the next maintenance release, is beaching the faith that AVAYA promote to the channels world wide.
The problem is they have committed to the market to release a new build every 6-9 months. This I understand will change.
I have been installing/training and been providing Tier 2 support for IPO for the last 5 years, I have ACA, CSA etc etc and have in-depth experience with all builds of software from pre 1.0 releases I have seen it all trust me !. And at times I lose the faith too. It frustrates me as it is promoted as a cutting edge product however it cannot perform basic functions that other PABX's in the same market as the IPO seem to be able to do as standard. On the other hand it has some very strong up points but CCC/MMM is certainly not one of them in my eyes.
As far as training goes I do agree with comments above that some official accenture trainers are out of date with current software releases and issues that are in the field. This is only because they are not exposed to it everyday. This is the same with most IT based courses as the instructor knows the courseware and has not always had the field experience that installing techs get on a day to day basis.
An so is unable to relay this is there courses, I guess this is where I am lucky!.
Anyways that’s my say on the matter,
- Thread starter
- #27
Well we finally met with Avaya today for the first time. The ipoffice was very inticing, but the support from avaya did not look appealing at all. Basically from what we understand unless we pay on a per hour basis the customer has to buy an expensive maintenance contract. What I like about NEC is that if I am certified on the product I can call in regardless of contract or not. That is not going to make it very easy to compete in an area saturated with NEC with that added expense for support. Also NEC can do almost everthing the ipoffice can do and in alot of cases more except for conferencing. This is going to be a very hard decision to make. When I talked to the avaya sales reps about the web apps such as web callback and web chat that the Avaya brochure talks about they didn't seem to know much about that? This is not a slam on Avaya I am just trying to help in making a wise decision for our company. Any input appreciated.
Web Call back and Web chat are provided by the MMM (Multi Media Modules) a sub set of CCC. If you are planning on configuring this, be aware the manual is crap, as it generally makes no sense what soever. I have installed MMM many times now and it is quite easy once you understand how the email routing works with Exchange and Active Directory.
When configured correctly it works very well. If you wanted further overview information refer to the Manaul for this information, it is on the 2.1 Engineers Toolkit.
Also with the Email routing the proactive replys are great based on message content, auto replys can be sent.
When configured correctly it works very well. If you wanted further overview information refer to the Manaul for this information, it is on the 2.1 Engineers Toolkit.
Also with the Email routing the proactive replys are great based on message content, auto replys can be sent.
Are you going to be purchasing equipment directly from Avaya, or though a distributor? Most distributors have their own inhouse tech support that you can call for free - and if they can't solve it, THEY pay the $100 per hour to call up avaya and get the answers.
Peter
Peter
- Thread starter
- #30
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