OpenSSH install on VIO Server?

[tarro99]

Hi,

I am trying to contact User: AIX5L who stated in 'thread52-1136125' that is was supported to install OpenSSH on a VIO Server. I need to get this confirmed in order to install it in our architecture, could you give me the PMR number that you raised with IBM about this question?

Regards,

Chris

 

[ogniemi]

I can say I had installed openssh on my VIO servers long time ago and no problems appeared till now.

How Openssh could influence to VIOS functionality???

 

[mrn]

AIX5L hasn't logged on since 5th May 2006, so don't hold your breath.

Mike

"A foolproof method for sculpting an elephant: first, get a huge block of marble, then you chip away everything that doesn't look like an elephant."

http://www.airport-parking-site.co.uk/

 

[tarro99]

ogniemi,

I am not really sure about what impact installing SSH on VIO will have, but I have been told by a couple of IBM consultants never to install any additional software on VIO.

An exception to this rule is NMON, which of course is an IBM utility.

Also, I currently have a PMR open with IBM to see if it supported to install a TSM client on VIO. Again, which is an IBM product. I will keep you posted on that one.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[hfaix]

If you really want to know, why don't you just call and ask?

I have ssh installed on 4 VIO servers with no problems. I posted in that original thread you mentioned, because I was curious at the time. I've since asked during other PMR calls and they have told me they support VIO with ssh installed. I can't image why they wouldn't. It's AIX 5.3, with more functionality. Switch to root (oem_setup_env) and type oslevel -r.

About NMON.... not an IBM supported tool. Written by an IBMer, for usage however not officially supported by AIX support. By supported, we mean they'll never use your results from nmon, and will never have you use image for perf monitoring. With that said.... I use it all the time.

....my 2 cents.

 

[DukeSSD]

I'm with hfax, although you should not muck about with vio it is AIX with a few bits bolted on.

Raise a PMR if you need the official line on the subject.

I bet I know the answers:
ssh - no problem.
TSM - don't go there, make a TSM LPAR instead.

Please let us know what they say.

 

[hfaix]

yeah... I'm with DUKESSD. I won't but a TSM client on my vio servers.

 

[hfaix]

sorry... I won't put a TSM client on my vio servers.

 

[tarro99]

Sorry guys,

but I have to disagree with you on a couple of counts:

- I have spoken to IBM Support and IBM onsite consultants on a number of occasions and they still maintain that SSH is NOT supported on VIO. The reason I started this thread is because the guy in thread 52-1136125 said that he had had a PMR stating it was supported. IBM cannot find such a PMR and asked me to quote them the PMR number.

- NMOM: you may be correct in that this tool is not officially supported by IBM, but it is supported on VIO. Check the Redbooks.

- Just had confirmation back from IBM stating that TSM is NOT supported on VIO. Again, the support Engineer in this case could also not find anything stating that SSH was supported.

However, if any of you have a PMR number that contradicts this (SSH support) then please let me know.

Thanks,

Chris

 

[hfaix]

in reply?

- NMOM: you may be correct in that this tool is not officially supported by IBM, but it is supported on VIO. Check the Redbooks.

which redbook? I'm curious.

 

[tarro99]

hfaix,

check out [sg247940(virtualisation).pdf]

Section 6.5.8 pg 324 - The nmon tool on the VIOS

Cheers,

Chris

 

[DukeSSD]

tarro99,

I don't think you fully understand the principal of the redbooks.

They do not "state" what is and is not "supported", they are just a guide to how to use your system, not a guide to what IBM does or does not support.

They are written by IBMers for the general user base but are only intended as a guide to operational use of the systems, they are not technically precise, in that: IBM do not necessarily "SUPPORT" every thing documented in them.

Take NMON for instance, IBM DO NOT support it.

It was written by an IBMer BUT it IS NOT a supported tool, even though it may be mentioned in a RedBook. As such (i.e. IBM do not support it therefore) it is obviously not supported on vio.

Just the same, SSH gets fair mention in the redbook but this obviously does not mean that IBM will support it, it is an open source freebie on the expansion pack - in case you fancy giving it a try.

If you need support on open ssh, call the open software developers and see if they’ll support it!

Java, downloaded from the SUN site - well why would IBM support that ?

Mozilla from mozilla.com - why would IBM support that either?

Just because AIX now has a Linux affinity does not mean IBM support all open source utilities, even if they are on the expansion pack CD.

If you need an IBM / cast iron guarantee that (Open)ssh is supported by IBM on VIO, forget it. I seriously doubt they would commit to supporting ssh on plain AIX, they didn't write it, why should they commit to supporting it? and even if they did, who are they to support someone else's code? they might find a problem but would not be able to modify the code if they did, so at this point the support would defer to the actual developers and where would that leave you if you had a system down? IBM could apply as much pressure as possible on the "Open" team but I bet even IBM couldn't get one of them to get out of bed at 2am on a Sunday to work on a fix for your problem.

Common sense mate, if it is not genuine IBM code, don't expect IBM to be able to support it, or if they claim to, don't expect them to be able fix it in a reasonable time frame.....

 

[tarro99]

DukeSSD,

I think you have crossed lines on what I am meaning with regards to 'supported' by IBM. I don't mean that IBM will fix any problems with somebody else's code, etc. I am talking about what they will accept to be installed on their OSs.

Let me change the wording so that you can understand what I mean:

It is NOT supported to install ANY third party software on your VIO server. e.g. SSH

If you do install any such software you will have an invalid VIO installation and it is unlikely IBM will support it. (VIO that is!)

NMOM, however is supported to be installed. I am not saying IBM will fix any problems with NMON but they will allow you to install it on VIO, and still accept your installation.

Understand?

ps: NMON was written by Nigel Griffiths who works for IBM UK.

Cheers,

Chris

 

[DukeSSD]

OK, got the point, you need to know if IBM will support vio with ssh installed.

Yet you say: It is NOT supported to install ANY third party software on your VIO server. e.g. SSH

You also said: - I have spoken to IBM Support and IBM onsite consultants on a number of occasions and they still maintain that SSH is NOT supported on VIO.

Yet in 'thread52-1136125'AIX5L (who was on the forum last Friday by the way) said: Its officialy Supported to install OpenSSH on the VIO Server.

And in this thread hfax said: I've since asked during other PMR calls and they have told me they support VIO with ssh installed.

So it seems you are still where you started off, except now both AIX5L and hfax claim it is supported but neither can come up with a PMR number or any evidence.

AIX5L and hfax, over to you to try and dig out an old PMR number for tarro99....

Oh well, not any useful input but at least I kept the thread near the top.

 

[hfaix]

Quite honestly... I don't know which call I asked on (but I have asked once or twice), but I guess I'm not too concerned about it. I have had SSH installed on VIO servers for over a year and have placed several VIO support calls since (without a problem). So if the question is whether they'll support a VIO server with SSH installed...... I've had 0 problems being supported. If they won't support me on a certain call, then I'll just take it off.

I did see nmon section in the RedBook. I wouldn't say that means it's supported on VIO (because of who writes them), but I do have it on mine. It's not really an "install" it's more of a executable script.

This begs the question.... if you say it's not supported to install any third party software, then what do the EMC / Hitachi disk subsystem people do? We used ESS (Shark), and I do have sddpcm installed on two of my VIO servers.

This all just goes to show that IBM has poorly documented supported adds ons to VIO.

 

[DukeSSD]

Well the whole question of what is supported on "anything" is not really a precise enough question.

You can install anything you like, on any platform you like, and if it does not give any sign of a problem then who cares.

Worst case is the 3rd party software causes a problem and:

a) you ask the platform support for help and they say remove the 3rd party stuff, we don't support it - well tough, it don't work so remove it or put up with the problem. Remove it and the problem is still there, well on goes the support call....

b) you ask 3rd party about your problem and they either say this is the fix or we don't support that platform - you are on your own.

Seems to me if you stick ssh on vio (a very reasonable thing to need to do in my opinion - sad if IBM say "not supported") and then have to raise a support call for vio, IBM spot the ssh install, the worst they can say is take it off.

It seems to be possible to cleanly remove ssh so the only issue you are likely to have is that you won't be able to use it for the duration of the support call (‘cos we know you will stick it back on as soon as the call is closed ;-) ) unless ssh is actually causing the problem. Not likely really but if it is then you know (why) you can't use it.

If your company policy is to only use "supported" software combinations then pressure IBM for an answer.

It would be interesting for them to document an answer on "ssh on vio" given that oem_setup_env is specifically to allow you to install 3rd party software (device drivers). OK ssh is not a "device driver" but is reality it is no different to a 3rd party device driver. Blimey, the havoc some 3rd party devices and drivers cause I'd have thought they'd welcome ssh on vio!

 

[DukeSSD]

Just as I posted I saw "This all just goes to show that IBM has poorly documented supported adds ons to VIO."

The bit that caught my eye was "IBM has poorly documented" and is struck me that all the Info Center, power 5, VIO and CoD stuff is so poorly documented it is amazing any one has actually got this stuff working.

Must be keeping their support people busy....

Sorry, a bit off topic there...

 

[tarro99]

A couple of points:

Firsty, I have installed Device Drivers in VIO (via oem_setup_env) no problem. I my case SCSI mircocode which I downloaded from IBM Fix Central (Supported on the P5 hardware I am using).

Secondly, my main driver behind all of this is because of the environment I work in. It is very strict. Absolutley everything needs to be official.

Don't worry if I was in a more relaxed environment I probably would install SSH on VIO and not be too concerned.

Thanks for everybody's input.

Chris