Onward to Java

[jimstarr]

Prompted by the "demise" of VFP my customer has decided to convert all their existing apps, and commence all new development in Java. I don't know anything about Java, so they're looking for someone who does.

My question is pretty general and pretty vague: what comes to mind when thinking of converting from FoxPro to Java? What does it take?

Their apps are all desktop based (no internet involved), use strictly FoxPro tables, and these tables are very small (<1000 records).

Any comments will be greatly appreciated. Thanks!!!

Jim

 

[DSummZZZ]

All I can say is I would like to meet the inventor of java and hit them over the head with a claw hammer.
I have never developed anything using java, but I despise every interface I've ever used that is java based. Slow and cumbersome.

Sorry for the rant, I realize it is a useless post, but when there are so many options available (C#, VC++, VB, ...) I don't understand why anyone would want to go with java.


-Dave Summers-

Even more Fox stuff at:

http://www.davesummers.net/foxprolinks.htm

 

[clipper01]

There have been a few threads on the conversion of VFP to dotNet , conversion to Java is definitely a first. Like many others on this site , I am a one-man-show VFP old-timer , but have done quite a bit of dotNet stuff recently. I would strongly advise you to TELL your client to go the dotNet route , it actually provides a very good migration path , you will find a lot of support in doing this , and 100% ZERO if you go Java ( imho)

Craig Bernson ,

http://www.craigberntson.com/blog/

has a log track record as an commercial vfp-er , who is now fully switched to dotNet. he often contributes here. I would suggest you get his take on this.

 

[Mike Lewis]

I would strongly advise you to TELL your client to go the dotNet route

That's rarely an option for most of us.

We can recommend. We can advise. We can suggest. We can give reasons.

But, ultimately, when it comes to customers, you've got to give 'em what they want.

Mike


__________________________________
Mike Lewis (Edinburgh, Scotland)

Visual FoxPro articles, tips, training, consultancy

 

[Olaf Doschke]

converting from FoxPro to Java? What does it take?"

Well, stating the obvious: besides Foxpro and Java you need Foxpro and Java knowledge.

Something you seldom will find in that combination.

If you find a collegue knowing Java well, you might establish working together on this, helping the Java developer to understand what you did in Foxpro.

If the budget is high on this migration project, you might start learning java, as you have the advantage of knowing both foxpro and your applications, you're likely still do this faster then a well experienced Java programmer needing to learn foxpro. Even though the learning curve of foxpro is less steep than for java, additionally needing to leanr all about the application is a task on top of that.

Bye, Olaf.

 

[jimstarr]

They looked into .net very seriously and actually chose it originally. But then changed their mind, feeling that it was important for the main app to be "cross-platform." Hence Java.

This main app isn't used in-house, but is a data entry and reporting package that they provide to their thousands of customers.

Jim

 

[clipper01]

Most vfp migrations discussions tend to be towards Sql Server which is very much MS based. But you can also migrate to SQLite which is " cross-platform' to dotnet/java/android/iphone etc . Works superbly as local storage database engine , which seems to be what ur client needs , you could have same back-end database/schema//biz logic etc with different front-ends ??

 

[Dan Freeman]

But then changed their mind, feeling that it was important for the main app to be "cross-platform." Hence Java.

Ouch. Write once, debug everywhere!

With XPLAT as a primary concern, I'm not sure I'd land on Java. I think RealBASIC is far better on that issue.

You know, we in the Foxpro community actually had a ton of experience in cross-platform development back in the day and many of us would pay not to have to go back there.

 

[craigber]

Did they actually talk to anyone in the Java community? There is great concern about what Oracle is now doing with Java. The openness that was there in the Sun days is gone. Oracle is suing other companies for violating Java patents, something Sun never did. The biggest of these is the case against Google for Android. If Google loses, and many legal experts think they will, they will either have to pay royalties to Oracle or rewrite in .Net. Google considered .Net and Java when they originally developed Android.

Cross platform? Sure, but the UI on a Windows device is very different from the UI on an Apple device. And most industry experts have declared Linux on the desktop dead. So, really, cross platform is not a reality. If they truely want cross platform, then go web-based, where browser standards are the same on all devices. Oh, wait, you still have nuances between IE, Firefox, Chrome, Safari, and <pick your browser>. So again, you still have issues, even with HTML5 and CSS3. And if you're talking server-based component, you still have to recompile and debug and test all over again when running the same components on different platforms...that all adds to the cost and takes more time.

Have they talked to anyone about the costs of supporting non-Windows devices? You pay more for Windows licensing, but in the long run, you typically pay lots less for support on a Windows device than say, Linux.

I've never done any Java development, but have talked to lots of people that do Java and .Net, and they hate, HATE Java compared to .Net. It's difficult to do just about everything. And when you do need to interop with a Windows application, it's a horrible experience. What does this mean? It takes longer to get something done in Java than .Net which increases costs.

OK, this doesn't answer your question. What comes to mind when converting to Java? RUN AWAY!

Craig Berntson
MCSD, Visual C# MVP,

http://www.craigberntson.com/blog

 

[jimstarr]

Thanks to all for the very helpful replies.

Jim

 

[clipper01]

not too many votes for java If they reconsider dotnet , u mentioned "This main app isn't used in-house, but is a data entry and reporting package that they provide to their thousands of customers" , which sounds like they just xCopy a bunch of dbf's. Apart from the front-end, what DB to use ??
1) Sql Server Express .. still needs some DBA expertise , definitely not xCopy
2) Sql Compact 4.0 ; have used to this , but a nightmare with different OS's, dll conflicts , convuluted folder deploy etc etc
3) seems a great case for SQLite,open-source,simple xCopy , 1 tiny DLL, multi-user up to say 30-50 users. Works great on Visual Studion with any of the .net lingos.

imo , this is the perfect migration platform for a lot of very typical small vfp systems

if u like , take a look at a "hello world" example using SQLite version of Northwind; ftp.drivehq.com itssguest hello , folder SLTEST

 

[jimstarr]

Thanks clipper01,

FYI, no xCopy; just a single install .exe generated by Inno Setup.


Jim

 

[Koen Piller]

Hi,

In case your customer wants Java and you have a VFP application to be converted, I believe Servoy is your friend.

Jockey(2)

 

[clipper01]

nearly the same thing ,Sql Server would be out as an Inno setup. In theory, Sql Compact should do , but my experience is that Sql Compact is fine for e.g. hosting a web site where u have full knowledge of the OS version etc, otherwise nothing but probs between OS / dll versions etc . Reason I'm posting is mainly curiosity what others have done for 'small' vfp migrations

Sean M