Ontrack - Dynamic Drive Overlay

[drtom]

I have just acquired a new (to me) computer IBM A40 PIII/833 30Gig - Win98SE
When I turn it on I get
"Starting Ontrack - Press spacebar to boot from diskette..."
I know nothing about this sort of thing.
When I do a DIR on C I don't see a Windows directory. Does this mean that there is no O/S? If so, if I reformat and load an O/S will I still get the Ontrack message?
Can anyone tell me how to start this thing?
Thanks

 

[madtunes]

I THINK I remember Ontrack making some recovery s/w that basically tracked changes to the info on the HDD. I have only had a few run-ins with it, but it was a pain when I did. I can't think of any good reason to keep/use it - there are MUCH better ways of keeping track of changes.

Personnally, I would forget using it and do a completely clean re-install of windows, that way it's set up your way and it's not an unknown that was done by someone else.

 

[edfair]

The dynamic drive overlay jiggers clusters in such a way as to allow a drive larger than the BIOS supports.
It was supplied in specific form customised by the drive manufacturers and ontrack supplied a generic form.
Once the DDO is loaded, any failure there will make the drive unaccessible, and a floppy needs the overlay to make the hard drive visisble.
Making a boot floppy usable was a function of a menu iten in the DDo software.
It is possible that your windows is on D: It is also possible that you have lost your OS.
If you fdisk and format and reload, I suspect you'll find that most of your hard drive is unusable, as DDO was generally put in place for a reason.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[drtom]

Thanks for the replies. It is a 30 Gig HD.
edfair
Are you saying that I need a particular floppy to boot up (i.e. not Win98 startup disk)?
On start-up there is the option to go into the Intel Boot Agent setup menu by hitting CRTL S.
Doing so reveals the folowing choices.
Network Boot Protocol - eitehr PXE or RPL
Boot Order (4 choices) - Local drives only or network 1st then local drives or local drives then network or network only
Show Setup Prompt - Enabled or Disabled
Menu Setup Wait Time - 2, 3, 5or 8 seconds
Legacy OS Wakeup Support - Enabled or Disabled

When I use the Win98 Startup Disk it tells me that there is not a valid Fat or Fat32 partition.
Fdisk reveals 1 - partition, Status - A, Type - Non-DOS, Mbytes 28608, Usage - 100%
Can you share anymore info with me?
Thanks

 

[edfair]

A 98 startup disk by itself will bring up FAT16 and FAT32 partitioned and formatted drives.
Since you see a non-fat partition, and the DDO message, it indicates that the 28gb you have was installed with DDO, as it is not either of the FAT partitions that are native 98.
A 98 startup disk, with a DDO overlay installed, will see a DDO created hard drive filesystem.
It appears, and this is speculation since other issues may come up, that you need to find on ontrack system that will put DDO on your floppy. Once there, you can see c:.

I used a DDO extensively in the earlier days, but finally decided to stick with the FATs since recovery is more likely in case of disaster.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[drtom]

Once I have it running I am going to install XP Pro in any event regardless of what the current OS is. What you said earlier is that you wouldn't recommend reformatting and doing a clean install. Are you still of that opinion?
Thx

 

[edfair]

That only held for the version installed. For XP I would fdisk, remove the non-dos partition and go for it.
But the size problem may come back to bite, depending on M/B issues. You may not get the full drive.

But for a DOS guy, who needs 28gb anyway? Well, one who has bunches of machines with 2gb partitions anyway.

good luck.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[rclarke250]

THe A40 should have either an intel 810 or 815 chipset on the system board,and will see the whole 30 gb no problem. Use the xp cd to delete the active partition and create as a ntfs partition. by the way if it is the original frive installed by IBM and nothing has been done to the drive,you would see "press F11 to start System Recovery" if you don't see that then the option has been turned off in bios or the drive is not the original IBM drive.

Rich

I shall use google before asking stupid questions!

 

[drtom]

It has the 815 chipset. The only way I can get to a command promt is to insert the Win98 startup diskette and then change to the CD. I can tehn get into the WINNT directory and can launch setup from there.
I then get a message that setup did not detect SmartDrive. How critical is SmartDrive?
Finally, I can't enter the BIOS to change the boot sequence. On startup it tells me to either use F1 or F12 but neither works and the Starting Ontrack process commences.
Any suggestions are appreciated.
Thx

 

[drtom]

to: rclarke250
Found Smartdrive, copied it onto C and went to the CD to start setup. Setup still doesn't find Smartdrive and when I choose to bypass it I get the nessage "XP requires a HD volume with at least 330 meg if free disk space" "Unable to locate such a drive" "Setup cannot continue"
Can I (should I) use the Win98 disk and then fdisk from the floppy I have?
My only fear is doing something that shuts down the HD beyond my meagher talents.

 

[edfair]

fdisk with whatever you have. XP can handle the clean drive.
How about a dir of the startup disk. If this is a standard startup it should have fdisk available. It should also create a ram drive as d: and the Cd should move to e:.
The ramdrive should have some more utilities available.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[drtom]

How do I get rid of Ontack and boot normally? What ever I try I can't get into the bios.
argh (frustration setting in)

 

[micker377]

About the only way to get rid of the "Ontrack", is to boot with an "Ontrack" floppy and "remove Ontrack".

 

[TekTippy4U]

Did you Fdisk and wipe the Partitions yet?
No Ontrack exp., but the MBR gets modified by the DDO, to see the rest of the drive....from Sys components you've listed, the only limitation would be the Mobo...i.e Ontrack not needed, unless the Mobo is old, but then how did they get a PIII on there.....the chipset 815 says it's a fairly newer one..new enough to allow a BIOS Flash update if necessary.
You'd probably have to go full out and remove all [1] Non-Dos first then any [2]other logical drives, [3]extended part and Lastly the [4] Primary active......in that order (reverse this when creating new Parts)..reboot into BIOS and set Primary IDE Master to "Auto", so the BIOS can see the HDD parameters correctly(check the physical cable conn and jumpers on drive too)...boot to Win98 Startup floppy and create New Partitions for 98 -or- the XP CDROM for XP....
Now I realize you can't get into the BIOS...that sucks....you may have to remove the BIOS jumper on Mobo or set it to "Recovery"....IBM/Compaq/HP BIOSs are tricky, as said by another with weird Diagnostic partitions and BIOS code in hidden HDD part. sometimes...D/l an updated BIOS and Flash if necessary. Also may want to use

http://www.killdisk.com

to completely wipe the Drive. Get the LLF tool from HDD manu. website - IBM? and LLF ......then proceed.
Running Fdisk /mbr here is no good as Ontrack customised the MBR and not being able to boot or see the Drive would be the symptom..

TT4U

Notification:
These are just my thoughts....and should be carefully measured against other opinions.
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[edfair]

fdisk /mbr

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[TekTippy4U]

fdisk /mbr

Well, i guess it couldn't hurt to try at this point.....could you expound just a bit more for me Edfair?..I would've thought you would have suggested fdisk /mbr long ago in this thread, but didn't, for the reasons I stated.

TT4U

Notification:
These are just my thoughts....and should be carefully measured against other opinions.
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[drtom]

I talked to my son-in-law. This might have been the entirely wrong thing to do but is has allowed closure to the issue... for the moment. I removed the system battery and waited a few minutes, reinserted it and got into the BIOS, set the boot order and voila. Now, the boot agent still initializes but after the opening screen it boots up into Windows normally.
Any further thoughts?

 

[edfair]

Until the MBR problem became apparent, there didn't seem to be the need. I didn't recall DDO hanging on after a partition removal. Kill disk would have been OK. That would have been my next shot. Or the manufacturer's cleanout program.
Evidently we were posting at the same time.

I suspect that the BIOS values for the hard drive parameters were glitched by something. That would send the DDO into orbit. Probably would have sent anything into orbit but DDO is little used now and not many remember the details of how and why.

In any event, you probably need to be thinking about replacing the use of it unless you find the documentation and drivers. As long as you are unprotected you are at risk. And get your EBD loaded so the drive is visible in an emergency situation. I used to keep at least 2 EBDs for any machine that had any special driver required to boot from floppy.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[TekTippy4U]

The Intel Boot agent is probably in the BIOS Code to assist in a "Network" Boot option, though dunno, "if" it's still there after a Clean Full install of Win (use 98? or XP?). Look in BIOS referring to this fact and if NOT on a network (obvious?)disable the Network Boot, or move the choice to last in line of Boot Device order....may need to Disable Onboard LAN, and or Disable/Remove the NIC in Device Mangler...XP setup may have detected the NIC and loaded a Networking Protocol/Adapter/Client you aren't using.

TT4U

Notification:
These are just my thoughts....and should be carefully measured against other opinions.
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[TekTippy4U]

edfair;
btw, thanx for the follow up, makes more sense now.

TT4U

Notification:
These are just my thoughts....and should be carefully measured against other opinions.
Backup All Important Data/Docs