ONLY, and A NUMBER

[adminman3]

Two thoughts for you: first, the use of 'a number', such as, "...it was revealed today that the U.S. experiences a number of these violations regularly"...

And: the use / misuse of "only", per: ..."you can only access the website between the hours of 10 and 2". I suggest this should be phrased this way, .."you can access the website only between the hours of 10 and 2"...

Does anyone agree?

 

[PaulTEG]

point one: agreed, if it's a number, and it's known, print the number
point two: the first declares that the only action available visa vi the website is to access it between 10 & 12, as it appears to be modifying the verb, rather than the time constraint

my €0.02
--Paul

cigless ...

 

[Dimandja]

I don't see anything wrong with the expression "a number of".

The placement of "only" changes the meaning of the sentence. So, I cannot object to it, without first knowing the context.

 

[CajunCenturion]

What exactly is the first point that we should consider?

In some circumstances, I can side with PaulTEG that is it is a known number, then use the number. But in other circumstances, perhaps as in the original snippet, even if an exact number is known, the actual value may not be that relavent. In this context, it may not matter how many times 'it' (whatever 'it' is) has happened, what is important is that it does happen regularly - whatever regularly means in this context.

If you do something five times a day, that could be regular. It could also be regular if you do someone once every six months. Even though the interval is substantially different, it can be just as regular.

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[AngelB]

CC, if you're only doing someone once every six months, maybe you should start lookin elsewhere...

Gez



If you have a problem, if there's no one else to blame, and if you can find him, maybe you can blame... DPlank

 

[Dimandja]

>{i] It could also be regular if you do someone once every six months[/i]

Cajun!

 

[CajunCenturion]

On the second point, I completely agree with PaulTEG in that the placement of 'only' indicates that access is the only option available between 10 and 2.

In my opinion,
"you can only access the website between the hours of 10 and 2"
is completely different than
"you can access the website only between the hours of 10 and 2"


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[DrJavaJoe]

...do someone once every six months.

Is this a sexual reference or are you Italian


Two strings walk into a bar. The first string says to the bartender: 'Bartender, I'll have a beer. u.5n$x5t?*&4ru!2[sACC~ErJ'. The second string says: 'Pardon my friend, he isn't NULL terminated'.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> CC, if you're only doing someone once every six months, maybe you should start lookin elsewhere.

Context is everything. I really don't want my medical follow ups at more frequent intervals, nor can I risk a longer interval.

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[earthandfire]

is completely different than

is completely different from

 

[CajunCenturion]

The posting is too quick.

'You People' are in the gutter!!


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[SantaMufasa]

Adminman...you are correct: both are unsatisfactory. If the first is coming from a news provider, then they should be ashamed; how much actual "news" did they provide? (Of course, "zero" is also "a number".) Such a technique I might expect from "The National Enquirer", but not from a reputable news organisation.

Mis-placed "only"s is a pervasive problem throughout the English-speaking world. It is a subtopic in every good "Precision Writing" course. It is also a topic that most English teachers ignore.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
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[CajunCenturion]

Thank you earthandfire. That is another common mistake.

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[SantaMufasa]

Wow! 12 posts in 21 minutes...must be a slow "Work-Tuesday" for us.

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[

http://www.dasages.com:

Providing low-cost remote Database Admin services]
Click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips if you use Oracle in Utah USA.

 

[tsdragon]

I look at the use of "a number" the same way I do "several" or "a few": it's a semi-quantitative qualifier.

One < a couple < several < a few < a number < a lot.

In the second statement: the way it is written implies that accessing the site is the only thing you can do to it between the hours of 10 and 12. During the other 22 hours you can still access it, but you can also do other things to it that you could not do during those two hours. I'm sure that's not what the writer meant.



Tracy Dryden

Meddle not in the affairs of dragons,
For you are crunchy, and good with mustard.

 

[earthandfire]

I would tend to agree with tsdragon in both assessments.

 

[SilentAiche]

I have no strong objection to "a number of these violations...," per se, however Santa is correct in that it is less informative than it could be, at least as presented. Of course, context is everything - a hard number may have been provided elsewhere in the article to provide reference.

Another take on Example 2:

..."you can only access the website between the hours of 10 and 2". (my emphasis)

This would mean that the individual being addressed can access the website only between 10 and 2, whereas his/her co-workers may have longer hours of access.

One < a couple < several < a few < a number < a lot.

I'm not sure why, but for some reason I think of "several" as being more than "a few." I'd have swapped them in the continuum: [blue]One < a couple < a few < several < a number < a lot < a buttload.[/blue]

Tim

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[SantaMufasa]

Actually, Tim, "only" limits the actor ("You") to whatever immediately follows "only". Therefore, (regardless of emphsis) the sentence, "you can only access the website between the hours of 10 and 2", means "You cannot eat, walk, breathe, laugh, et cetera between the hours of 10 and 2; you can only access the website."

Mufasa
(aka Dave of Sandy, Utah, USA)
[

http://www.dasages.com:

Providing low-cost remote Database Admin services]
Click here to join Utah Oracle Users Group on Tek-Tips if you use Oracle in Utah USA.

 

[CajunCenturion]

Another possibility is that 'access' is the only permission you have to the site at that time. You may not update it during those times; you can only access the site.

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[SilentAiche]

I have to respectfully disagree, Dave. Your interpretation of "only" in this case gives the word such a stranglehold on the sentence it renders it illogical.

If I were to retract my last post's emphasis on the person being addressed, then "you can only access the website between the hours of 10 and 2" could mean that the website could be accessed but not interacted with or written to. Another potential meaning: you can access the website but nothing else, such as the company network.

"Only" is clearly a versatile word, given how its placement changes the meaning of the following (to borrow from a famous example whose wording I cannot recall):

"[blue]Only[/blue] you can access the website between the hours of 10 and 2"

"You [blue]only[/blue] can access the website between the hours of 10 and 2"

"You can access [blue]only[/blue] the website between the hours of 10 and 2"

"You can access the [blue]only[/blue] website between the hours of 10 and 2"

"You can access the website [blue]only[/blue] between the hours of 10 and 2"

"You can access the website between the hours of 10 and 2 [blue]only[/blue]"


It seems to me that with this word emphasis is critical.

However, I are not an expert.

Tim

[blue]_____________________________________________________
If you need immediate assistance, please raise your hand.
If you are outside of Raleigh, raise your hand and say[/blue] [red]Ooh! Ooh![/red]