Online learning - will it replace the class room? 2

calahans · Mar 30, 2000

Online learning is being heralded as the future format of study. I still like the idea of class rooms and getting to air you ideas with people on the course with you, not to mention the social aspect

It is cheap and could make learning more accessible to the masses but I wonder about the quality and the recognition of them. Has any body used this type of learning? What do others think? Cal

jnicho02 · Mar 30, 2000

aha! A subject close to my heart. I currently provide courses for people all over the world and would dearly love to make these courses more accessible. At the moment we have regularly scheduled courses at a central office which does have a number of benefits: <ul> <li>it gets people away from work pressures <li>the social mixing <li>they get to see the faces behind the systems <li>it is easy to get feedback as they are right in front of you </ul> However, the downsides are numerous... <ul> <li>you need skilled trainers <li>our trainers are often the developers and are quite busy <li>travel costs <li>lack of general accessibility </ul> My personal view is that a mixture should be created. Jez. p.s. I have posted a request in the 'Corporate Trainers' forum asking Instructors to participate in this thread

JimHorton · Mar 30, 2000

I have taken some online courses, and I like the idea.  However, (and I hate to bring up the downsides but it must be noted), if there is a valuable degree/certification involved, the possibility for fraud on the part of the student is greater-- ie-who actually typed in those answers?  Obviously there is opportunity for this in a live setting, but if the person is sitting right there, and is handed a piece of paper with hitherto unknown questions, and he has to come up with answers on the spot, it's more reliable that s/he is the actual 'answerer'.  Anyway, to the good side: the courses that I took were valuable to me, I learned, it made me study, it made me do things that I may not have tried.  It's a great way to learn. --Jim

Karl Blessing · Mar 30, 2000

Depending on the type of learner you are can bring multiple benefits, and downfall, there is three types I know of, I myself am a tactile learner Tactile - Must perform the task to learn the task(hands on) Visual - Learns from what you see (Visual Aids, watching a demo) Auditory - Learns from what you hear (listening to a lecture, saying it outloud to yourself) the online training would seem to fit best with visual learners and tactile(if you perform the examples, etc). Karl <a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.8m.com>kb244@kb244.8m.com</a> <a href=

http://kb244.8m.com>

</a> Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

calahans · Mar 31, 2000

I've tried some online learning for a work course and found it difficult reading from the screen for long times. However I did pass it and managed to learn a fair bit. I did like the way that you had URLs to futher reading, in a class room environment the lecturer mentions a book or buzz word and you have to look it up later.

amosgreg · Apr 3, 2000

The problem I have had with most (and I should bold and cap the word most! ) is that the content ranges from very easy with an extreamly long curve to get into the detail, or the opposite in which even at the introductory level the detail is overwelming. I have yet to take a on-line course or CBT (and my company believes in them very much and has hundreds avaliable to me to take free of charge) that was paced to cover the information and also had enough supporting detail that it facilitated learning and answered the the questions raised. This said, the main problem I encounter is a question posed early on that is not answered, references(internal and external) are not detailed enough to answer or solve the question and the tests invariably target this concept. I have a difficult time when there is not anyone associated with the course that I can turn to to ask a question or for further clearification. "Rant" ended... I will say that this style of learning is great for some people just not all of us.    Greg        Greg Amos <a href=mailto:amosgreg@ix(dot)netcom(dot)com replace(dot)>amosgreg@ix(dot)netcom(dot)com replace(dot)</a> <a href= > </a>

Alt255 · Apr 3, 2000

Greg, I'll have to agree. Nothing beats a human teacher. A computer can show you how to slide a round peg in a round hole. It can score your attempts. It can inform you of the correct answer after you have inserted a square peg in a round hole. But only a real, flesh & blood teacher with a personality and real intelligence will remember and understand your original question... "Why am I doing this?" The virtual (AI) teacher will always lack certain human qualities - the capacity to understand and the capacity to remember something it didn't understand. <a href=mailto: > </a> <a href=

http://vorpalcom.netfirms.com>another

temporary Vorpalcom home page</a> Send me suggestions or comments on my current software project.

Karl Blessing · Apr 4, 2000

Well human teachers are best, the one I had for C++ , didnt do anything that couldnt be used in a real life situation. A computer might just say , do this, do that, do this. Karl <a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.8m.com>kb244@kb244.8m.com</a> <a href=

http://kb244.8m.com>

</a> Experienced in , or have messed with : VC++, Borland C++ Builder, VJ++6(starting),VB-Dos, VB1 thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, Borland C++ 3(DOS), Borland C++ 4.5, HTML, ASP(somewhat), QBasic(least i didnt start with COBOL)

jnicho02 · Apr 5, 2000

Online learning doesn't necessarily mean no human teacher. I took a Ziff-Davis on building on-line communities and there were set times when the trainer would be available. In this case, the trainer was the author of the book. To me, this is a big bonus... My ideal system would be a hybrid. Online information that can be read and explored in your own time, at your own pace. This can then be backed up by forum discussions and Q&A sessions with an expert. This means that more people are able to participate and the trainer can concentrate on the difficult bits. Sound good?

Alt255 · Apr 5, 2000

That sounds good to me. There are times when the presence of an instructor can hinder the learning process and times when that presence is indipensible. But answering Cal's original question, in my opinion, on-line learning can't replace the classroom, only supplement it. Consider the absurdity implied in reversing the argument: Will teachers ever replace computers in the classroom? Not while the teachers have a tool that makes their jobs easier and so much more effective. <a href=mailto: > </a> <a href=

http://vorpalcom.netfirms.com>another

temporary Vorpalcom home page</a> Send me suggestions or comments on my current software project.

codehead · May 11, 2000

I am all for them, as long as someone is available after hours to explain what I can't grasp from the reading.  Also, student forums are nice for discussions. Currently, I have to drive 90+ miles once a week to get to class, when I can take the same classes on-line, but my company won't pay for distance learning classes. Bob

ET · May 21, 2000

I agree with the comment about the possibilities for fraud: they are much greater.  Of course, folks have been taking correspondance courses for decades, which presumably have the same potential problems.  And what are we talking about if not a jazzier correspondance course?   But I also think the suggestion of a combination of on-line and in-person instruction has a lot of merit.  For instance, the creation of a virtual reality simulations of systems, or places, that would be too expensive or nearly (almost contradicted myself by writing "virtually&quot

impossible to have or go to in real life, would be very helpful.  Suppose you run a small engineering school and can't afford a gas turbine lab; could you buy time on a virtual one that would be an acceptable substitute?  And maybe the students could "go" to Mars or to the ocean bottom, etc. Also, I think it's important to define what "education" is before we can decide how best to acquire it.  I think it is much more than classroom work: reading, homework, tests.  For me, it is "the acquisition of the art of the application of knowledge," not the knowledge alone.  It's in the "application" aspect that it's hard for me to see how a purely virtual environment can substitute for live experience.  Engineers, for example, need to grapple with a real design-build-test problem before launching out into the work world.   And there needs to be a mentor, a coach, there in touch with the individual or team, and the mentor needs to observe the product in operation, not just read a report about it.   I can't see how to effectively replace that with a virtual classroom.  You can't each an art academically, i.e. divorced from the practice of it. ET

kelt · Jun 8, 2000

It's hard to say, but studies done a couple of years ago and posted in "Training" magazine seem to point toward a solid "NO" when online training is used exclusively.  One of their reasons was the 4% retention rate that was associated with this type of training, another was the fact that online training assumes that busy workers will find time in their day to sit down and go through the training course. I myself look at online training as an excellent reenforcement tool for classroom training.  One of the largest complaints in my corporation is that when the training is done is not necessarily when the user is going to use it.  Computer training courses done in the heat of a sales campaign when a rep would use it is a definite no-no, but training them on the "down time" leads to lack of use of the original training.  However, an all day training session offered in the "down time" combined with online learning sessions when they need a fast refresher, that seems like the ideal combination. As a lone training tool, online learning starts to fall into the same category as handing out computer manuals to the organization.  Online learning assumes that the individual will now take charge of their learning experience.  It assumes that already busy personnel will work time into their day to go online and learn on a subject.  It assumes that if the participant has questions that they will seek out the answers from someone who knows the system.  It doesn't take into account that a busy person looks upon this type of education as a "time waster" and won't work it into their day, that the individual may not want to take charge of their own learning, that the individual does not want to look foolish in front of a co-worker that knows more than them and finally that the worker might want a human touch to relate the information that they are getting specifically to their job function. So in conclusion, online learning has the plus of being there when the trainee needs it, lowering costs associated with staffing and sending out a Training Staff, and has the ability to quickly distribute skill sets to a widespread organization but tends to neglect the human factor.  Would I support the integration of online learning within a corporation, absolutely.  Would I support the loss of all human contact in the training arena, absolutely not.

carpeliam · Jul 2, 2000

I think that most can agree that exclusive online learning is not the best thing- that idea has been evident in this thread. Right now, I'm going to school at Worcester Polytechnic Institute- a lot of you probably haven't heard of it. I think it's rated around #27 on the "Most Wired Schools" list. We select courses online... the only prof I ever had who didn't have a syllabus online was a philosophy teacher (nothing against philosophy teachers, it was a great class, but they're not as likely to keep their syllabus online as a Computer Science teacher might). Homework assignments are online; just about everything is online. This whole system really is a great supplement to the class. In some cases, it can totally replace going to class. This system does pretty well for me... Liam Morley <a href=mailto:lmorley@wpi.edu>lmorley@wpi.edu</a> <a href=

http://www.wpi.edu/~lmorley/>

] :: imotic :: website :: [</a> "light the deep, and bring silence to the world. 
light the world, and bring depth to the silence.

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Online learning - will it replace the class room? 2

calahans

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jnicho02

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JimHorton

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Karl Blessing

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calahans

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amosgreg

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Alt255

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Karl Blessing

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jnicho02

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Alt255

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codehead

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ET

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kelt

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carpeliam

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