One Million English Words 7

[2ffat]

Mark your calendar, June 10, at 10:22 a.m.. That's when the one millionth English word will be created.

Do you believe this or not?




James P. Cottingham
[sup]I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229![/sup]

 

[jebenson]

From the article:

But that prediction has come under fire from linguists who say Payack is more interested in generating publicity than in adding to linguistic scholarship.

This sums up my take on this pretty well.



I used to rock and roll every night and party every day. Then it was every other day. Now I'm lucky if I can find 30 minutes a week in which to get funky. - Homer Simpson

Arrrr, mateys! Ye needs ta be preparin' yerselves fer Talk Like a Pirate Day!

 

[Stella740pl]

Experts say it's impossible to calculate the number of words in the English language, which is complicated by the classification of compound words, verb forms and obsolete terms.

But don't tell that to Payack.

“We believe words can be counted if you define them in the right way,” he told the Chronicle. “You can count them like anything else in science. You can count how many atoms there are in the ocean.”

This guy is more statistician than he is linguist. (Well, there is a branch of linguistics actually studying more mathematical phenomena than the languages, I believe it is called "Structured and applied linguistics".)

Well, you wouldn't/cannot actually count the atoms in the ocean - but you can estimate the number, and you might actually come pretty close - but still, you cannot count them to check if you estimated correctly.

Another story with the words. You have to actually count them, you have to have them all in your database to tell how many of them you have - and for that, you do have to define them - whether you count all of the "compound words, verb forms and obsolete terms" (and if they are obsolete, are you sure you know and counted all of them?); you have to decide whether you count dialect words, jargon, slang, etc. That's the part where you have to define what "a word" is, make all the decisions, collect them all (and looks like that's what experts have a problem with - how to make sure that those words are ALL words, no more, no less) and, yes, count them.

Now the second part comes into play. When you say that one millionth English word will be created on June 10, at 10:22 a.m., you are not counting, you extrapolating, or, in other words, you predicting based on estimation made using some previous data. And that previous data also has to be scrutinized, as for criteria on selecting and nominating the new words to be counted.

So in a way, IF you can strictly define words to be counted, IF you can make sure that you actually collected ALL the words that qualify and that you were consistent doing that, THEN you may be able to COUNT them. IF also you can strictly define rules for nomination of new words AND you can make sure that you collected ALL of the qualifying new words, THEN you can observe if there are any tendencies in their creation. Under all of those assumptions, the you may be able to ESTIMATE and PREDICT when a word #1,000,000 will be created. You cannot actually COUNT it BEFORE it is CREATED.

So - not complete nonsense, but not complete truth, either.
Let's say, it is based on many assumptions, which you may or may not believe can be true.

It looks like experts do not believe in the assumptions - so of course they cannot believe in the prediction.

I, personally, is not sure. But then, I do not believe I have the qualifications to rule this case.

 

[Thargy]

True, but you do make some good points. Well done.

Regards

T

 

[GSCaupling]

Terrific points, Stella. Thanks for a thoughtful post.

GS

[red]******^*******
[small]I[/small] [small]Love[/small] [♥] [small]Redundancy.[/small][/red]

 

[Michael52x]

Alex, Id like to buy a vowel for my new word"
It will be the millioneth word!

"Impatience will reward you with dissatisfaction" RMS Cosmics'97

 

[Stella740pl]

Thanks for the stars, guys.
I honestly didn't expect them, I just put in writing what I was thinking.

 

[mmerlinn]

Basically, if you include all of the permutations of English "words", I believe we passed the million-word mark ages ago.

One thing is clear, though, English ranks at the top or near the top in total words in a language, again depending on how you define "words".

And ranking languages by the number of words they have is an exercise in futility. Many languages do not have things that we can define as "words", yet they have the capability of expressing anything that English can express.

mmerlinn

http://mmerlinn.com

"We've found by experience that people who are careless and sloppy writers are usually also careless and sloppy at thinking and coding. Answering questions for careless and sloppy thinkers is not rewarding." - Eric Steven Raymond

 

[ChrisHunt]

Do you believe this or not?

Emphatically not.

http://languagelog.ldc.upenn.edu/nll/?p=972

Mr. Payack has been trumpeting the arrival of "the millionth word" in English for some time now. In fact, he's predicted that the English language would pass the million-word mark in 2006… and 2007… and 2008… and now 2009. [...] In a previous installment of the Payack saga, I wrote that the Million Word March was "a progression that he turns on and off based on his publicity needs."

If you're interested in language - and if you're reading this forum I assume that you are - I strongly recommend the Language Log blog. It's written by (and presumably for) linguistics academics, so it sometimes goes over the heads of us mere interested amateurs, but it's often facinating reading nonetheless.

-- Chris Hunt
Webmaster & Tragedian
Extra Connections Ltd

 

[BadBigBen]

Stella - one word "WOW", what a statement, where you or are you a technical/scientific writer?


I like this quote out of the Oxford English Dictionary which states:

The Vocabulary of a widely diffused and highly cultivated living language is not a fixed quantity circumscribed by definite limits... there is absolutely no defining line in any direction: the circle of the English language has a well-defined centre but no discernible circumference.


Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[GSCaupling]

Ben- Great quote. Thanks for sharing it!

GS


[red]******^*******
[small]I[/small] [small]Love[/small] [♥] [small]Redundancy.[/small][/red]

 

[Stella740pl]

Ben,

Well... I was minoring in journalism (while majoring in applied math/comp. science), but the only period in my life I was actively writing were my college years. It was more of a hobby, but I did publish in our school's weekly paper and in the city's daily. That's if you don't take into account high school literature essays.

Believe it or not, I hate writing tech. documentation with a passion. But occasionally have to anyway.

 

[Stella740pl]

Ben,

P.S. That writing was not in English, though.

 

[BadBigBen]

Stella - I am still impressed with the articulation and the content...

let me guess it was in Greek, that you wrote those articles for college and the paper...

PS: I had journalism in High School, and my minor in College was Computer Science, my major was Astrophysics... sadly never completed it...



GS - I found it fitting to the thread's purpose...

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[Stella740pl]

Thanks. Very nice to hear that.

let me guess it was in Greek

I am surprised. Why do you think so?
And no, it was Russian, and very occasionally, Ukrainian.

 

[BadBigBen]

Stella - actually from the name, but at least I got close with the alphabet (well almost)...

PS: what is the difference with Russian and Ukrainian, I know they are close (kinda like Dutch and German, I would presume) or am I totally way off...

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[Stella740pl]

Ben,

The name is actually of Italian/Latin origin, means "star". Having said that, Russian language uses plenty of first names with roots from other languages, including lots of Greek ones.

Russian and Ukrainian are close, but they by no means are the same language. (I am not sure exactly how close are Dutch and German, so I cannot compare.) Some areas in Russia have dialects that are closer to Ukrainian than to Russian, but that has a historical explanation. What is the difference? Alphabet is not identical - a few letters are different; many different words; at least one different grammar form, different spelling/pronunciation of common words, etc.

Knowledge of both languages helps me understand some other Slavic languages. Say, Belorussian I understand both, written and oral, but Polish I would understand mostly written, and not all of it. It's much closer to Ukrainian than Russian, but pronunciation is very different, and the alphabet is Latin. (I've lost an active knowledge of Ukrainian long ago, as I haven't used it for many years. I tried - I scramble for words, and they don't come to mind.)

 

[BadBigBen]

I've only known Stella's that are Greek nationals, that is why I, um, wrongly assumed it was Greek that you wrote in...

Well, I guess that Ukrainian and Russian is more like Dutch and Afrikaans, then Dutch and German... when Russian is transcripted into a Latin Alphabet, I can see the many loan words that have entered the language, e.g. Landschaft (landscape) and Schlagbaum (turnpike, boom barrier), with almost NO change of the wording...

Thanks for the explanation...

I scramble for words, and they don't come to mind.

happens to me with Spanish (learned in High School and never used since, except to curse)...

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"

 

[Stella740pl]

when Russian is transcripted into a Latin Alphabet, I can see the many loan words that have entered the language, e.g. Landschaft (landscape) and Schlagbaum (turnpike, boom barrier)

I understand the words you mentioned much better without the English translation .

Yes, many foreign words entered the language for good. While it's an active process, I believe, most borrowing from Greek happened early on, while borrowing from German started with the reign of Peter the Great, and the heaviest influx from French started with Catherine the Great. Nowadays, most loaned words come from English.

 

[BadBigBen]

I understand the words you mentioned much better without the English translation

I figured that, the translations are for the Anglophones among us...

while borrowing from German started with the reign of Peter the Great, and the heaviest influx from French started with Catherine the Great.

I'd figure that it would be exact opposite, as Catherine the Great was a born German Princess (Sophie Auguste Friederike von Anhalt-Zerbst-Dornburg)...

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"