On Twitter, is it 'he or she' or 'they' or 'ip'? 1

[CajunCenturion]

On Twitter, is it 'he or she' or 'they' or 'ip'?


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[Welshbird]

I've never seen an issue with useing ('him','his') etc to mean 'of an individual' to me.

For example, I actively dislike the word 'Chairwoman'. |Its just silly to me.

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[flapeyre]

I tend to use the plural "their" when gender is ambiguous.

"Chairman" or "Chairwoman" - how about just plain "Chair"? Ought to be obvious from context that one is referring to a person, and not an article of furniture.

"Chairperson" grates on me - ugh.

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

 

[SkipVought]

How about...

"Our Person who is in heaven..."

Skip,
[sup]Don't let the Diatribe...
talk you to death![/sup][sub]
Just traded in my old subtlety...
for a NUANCE![/sub]

 

[KornGeek]

I've never seen an issue with useing ('him','his') etc to mean 'of an individual' to me.

The issue I have with this has nothing to do with being politically incorrect, but with being simply incorrect. It's the inaccuracy of the words that bothers me.

In the end, I tend to butcher the grammar and use "they" and "their" (but I'm still not comfortable doing so).

 

[Welshbird]

I think gramatically its certainly his or him or whatever, and whilst I'm not a 'him' (I'm sure!) I don't find it difficult.

My personal proper pet hate is letters which begin

Dear Sir/Madam,

NOOO!!

Although worse when they continue

I am writing to you to...

<rant off>

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[2ffat]

Correction: "Our Person who art in Chair..."

[small]Sorry, couldn't resist![/small]


James P. Cottingham
[sup]I'm number 1,229!
I'm number 1,229![/sup]

 

[SkipVought]

How about Sonny & Chair

Skip,
[sup]Don't let the Diatribe...
talk you to death![/sup][sub]
Just traded in my old subtlety...
for a NUANCE![/sub]

 

[Stella740pl]

While signs like "Men working" may be factually incorrect, they are easily fixable by replacing the noun (for example, with "people") or by rephrasing the sign.

It's just another of many examples where the noun was replaced by a more inclusive one (firemen -> firefighters, postmen -> mail carriers, sportsmen -> athletes, etc.) It can be done without bending and breaking the grammar rules - and, thus, probably, should be done.

But in case of the pronoun, it is not easily replaceable by a grammatically correct AND not overly heavy version (which is also not an artificial construct) - and, I think, it shouldn't be. Language is language, grammar is grammar, and I also have never seen an issue with using "he", "him", or "his" in a general case which may be applied to a person of either gender. Please, no "he or she", "they" or "ip"!

I noticed, many magazines, say, those for parents, started to alternate "he" and "she" when talking about "a child". Say, in one paragraph it's "If your child has cold, give her plenty of liquids to drink", and in the other "If your child hurt himself on a playground, do such and such".

I came from a language background where all the nouns are either feminine, masculine, or neutral - grammatically, not by meaning. So maybe that's why I wouldn't have a problem if they were more consistent referring to a child (or a person) as "he" everywhere - not to imply that your child necessarily a boy, but just because I am used to it, because for me, word "child" have always been masculine grammatically.

 

[SQLSister]

I find he and him to be insulting in the extreme when refering to me or anyone female. A lot of you aren't old enough to remember how this usage was a subtle way to keep women in their places. Always refering to lawyers, doctors, etc as "he" had the definite implication that "she" could not be one. Especially as secretaries were always referred to as she.

It is especially insulting when the person does, in fact, know the gender of the person being referred to.

"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared

 

[Stella740pl]

SQLSister,
Well, maybe. I really wouldn't know.

Probably because I came to USA only 14 years ago - and where I am from, I never heard people referring to lawyers or doctors as males only in any other sense but grammatical. Maybe that's because there were at least as many, if not more, female lawyers and doctors than male ones, and not only among young people, but old enough to be my parents or even grandparents. The times when women could not be one were gone in the early 20th century.

I studied applied math and computer science with many, many more women than men in the class.

Actually, some professions were - and still are - off limits for women there (as far as I know). Say, coal miner. But I've never ever seen any woman that wanted to be one or heard her complaining about not being accepted to the trade.

 

[PaulBricker]

I can't help but wonder if "I, you, he, she, it, we or they" is really that much of a player in the cultural sexism that has been challenged in this country(and others, sorry, no nationalism intended here) in the last 50 years. I think there are a great many other bigger players in this issue. Culturalism, classism, education, religion and nationalism all impact this much more than language. I think that language simply reflects the value system of the society (social organization) using it. The real question is, does altering or adjusting the language produce any real change? Probably not. I think the change has to be from the other direction. Change the social issues, and the language will take care of itself.

Just my 2 pennies.

Paul

 

[AnotherHiggins]

Thanks for linking, CC.

It was nteresting to read about function words being more resistant to change than nouns or verbs.

Also, I didn't realize that 18 tweets constituted a ground swell.

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[pinkgecko]

I noticed, many magazines, say, those for parents, started to alternate "he" and "she" when talking about "a child". Say, in one paragraph it's "If your child has cold, give her plenty of liquids to drink", and in the other "If your child hurt himself on a playground, do such and such".

Yes, many of them seem to switch every single paragraph. I feel sorry for the editors who have to go through and make sure the gender references are consistent within each of those paragraphs and that the entire book shows a proper balance. I end up focusing on the "He" and "She" rather than the material, and find it quite distracting. If they really want to be gramatically correct and avoid using "they", I agree with you - just overuse "your child" and "your baby". Juggling "he" and "she" is just distracting.

[blue]When birds fly in the correct formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness.[/blue]

 

[pinkgecko]

Actually I guess I'm not agreeing. I'm just saying.

[blue]When birds fly in the correct formation, they need only exert half the effort. Even in nature, teamwork results in collective laziness.[/blue]

 

[sleipnir214]

I'm perfectly comfortable with using the they as a gender-neutral pronoun. It's not a perfect solution to the problem (but then, there doesn't seem to be one: link), but it's one that authors have been using for centuries (link,link).

I suppose my exposure to German which has the pronoun "sie" that is used as "she", "they" and (when capitalized) as the formal "you" has probably desensitized me to the reuse of "they".


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[KornGeek]

I came from a language background where all the nouns are either feminine, masculine, or neutral - grammatically, not by meaning. So maybe that's why I wouldn't have a problem if they were more consistent referring to a child (or a person) as "he" everywhere - not to imply that your child necessarily a boy, but just because I am used to it, because for me, word "child" have always been masculine grammatically.

I find he and him to be insulting in the extreme when refering to me or anyone female. A lot of you aren't old enough to remember how this usage was a subtle way to keep women in their places. Always refering to lawyers, doctors, etc as "he" had the definite implication that "she" could not be one. Especially as secretaries were always referred to as she.

One of the more fascinating (to me at least) aspects of this issue is how significantly a person's background can affect their perceptions of the pronouns used.

I end up focusing on the "He" and "She" rather than the material, and find it quite distracting.

I completely agree.


On a slightly related note, I'm a big fan of the word "y'all" to differentiate between adressing an individual or a group. I've even had the difference between "y'all" and "all y'all" explained to me before, but I'm not sure I could convey it well.

 

[kjv1611]

I've even had the difference between "y'all" and "all y'all" explained to me before, but I'm not sure I could convey it well.

[ROFL]

--

"If to err is human, then I must be some kind of human!" -Me

 

[flapeyre]

It's simple, really -

"Y'all" is singular or plural, depending upon context.

"All y'all" is always plural (ToughGuy equivalent is "Youse Guys").

-- Francis
I'd like to change the world, but I can't find the source code.

 

[GSCaupling]

"Y'all" is singular or plural, depending upon context.

Context meaning, of course, how many people one is addressing.

For example, when the preacher leaves after Sunday dinner, you might say, "Y'all come back soon!"

However, if the preacher and his wife leave after Sunday dinner, you might also say, "Y'all come back soon!"


GS
[small]Geek Southerner[/small]



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