On my 6th replacement drive

[GoatIronMaidn]

As I sit here waiting for my 6th replacement drive from Maxtor, I start to think it might not be the drives after all. The problem is, after a few weeks of working fine, I start gettting boot errors like the system files are corrupt or missing and I have to use the XP disk recovery panel to reinstall them. I have the knowledgebase article about recovering the hive files and reinstalling them memorized by now. Happens all the time. BUT, when the Maxtor failed, I would use the 10 year old Seagate from the kid's computer to be able to keep working. Since this Seagate has always worked, I assumed it was just the Maxtor drives.

This morning, the Seagate gave me the same message. urrgh. So, maybe it isn't the drives after all. Could it be a bios problem? It was flashed about a year ago to Asus 1008. Could it be a motherboard problem or ATA problem? It doesn't seem to matter where I install the drives, master, slave, cable select, ATA, IDE, where ever I put them, they eventually fail.

I am currently back on just the Seagate, with minimal junk on it, just drivers. Although I did download the SP1 for XP yesterday. Possible connection? No viruses, just ran Panda and NAV. Any ideas?

The Maxtor drives were 30gig, they have since upgraded me to 60 gig for my troubles. The Seagate is only 8 gig. System is Asus A7V133 MoBo, AMD 1600+, 512 SDRAM, WinXP, Radeon 7500, I/OMagic Typhoon Theater sound.

 

[wolluf]

I'd lay odds on a non-hard drive hardware problem. Memory, mobo, cpu, graphics card, power supply etc all being suspects).

Elimination process (as far as is possible) is common approach. Remove all non-necessary hardware (sound, network & modem cards, CD writes, zip drives), if you've more than one stick of memory try each on its own in turn (if not, try to get hold of known good stick to try) & see if it runs ok. If problems persist, try swapping graphics card, get uprated power supply (unless you're sure you're is good enough). Could also try slowing down processor/memory (may be bios setting, or jumpers of dip switches or combination).
If problem goes away, add back items one at a time.

PS. Cpu fan ok? No overheating?

 

[GoatIronMaidn]

The sound is almost new and the video is also. I'm thinking it could be the power supply because the failures always seem to happen on the initial boot, maybe a surge or something? Once it is up and running, everything is ok, even on restarts. But if it sits overnight off, and I go to boot in the morning, it fails for a few times, then either boots or says non system disk and I get another drive.

 

[gargouille]

It could be the voltage at the wall plug...have a voltmeter handy? Is that circuit properly grounded?

wolluf: all/any of those things (cpu, memory, vid card) wiping out a hard drive? (today's sophomoric response) LOL


GIM: you tried the drives in another machine and confirmed they were dedoubled?

 

[wolluf]

gargouille - can't see any wiped out hard drives.

Just 'I start gettting boot errors like the system files are corrupt or missing' - which is classic sign of some other bit of hardware causing a problem.

But, remembering how old you are, I'll just put it down to senile dementia!

 

[paparazi]

I would say MEMORY!
Had a similar problem last week.
Also make sure that you havn't forced the memory to operate beyond it's capabilities ie: setting it at Cas 2 when it should be Cas 2.5 or 3. Martin Replying helps further our knowledge, without comment leaves us wondering.

 

[gargouille]

Hay, hay, hay now, wolluf:
I meant MY sophomoric response, not yours!

(You're also painting a very bleak future for yourself, mon frer, 'cause if you're lucky you'll live so long. But you'll discover it isn't so bad when you get here. You'll also just raise the bar on what you consider to be OLD>)

But I'm, as usual, getting off-topic.

GIM: Forgive my persistence, but you never tested the drives in another machine to confirm their failure?

 

[ANFPS26]

Have you scanned for viruses? Might be a boot sector virus?? Jim

Please come back and let us know if your
problem is fixed and what fixed it!!

 

[GoatIronMaidn]

Ok, not in any particular order...

I have only thought to try the drives in another machine after they fail badly and will not boot anymore. They do the same in the other machine. The Seagate seems to be back to normal though. No problems the last few days. I did go out and buy some monster ATA cables, maybe they are helping, but I still suspect the power supply. When I looked at it closely, it is filthy. The rest of the inside of the case is pretty good, but the power supply is just flat out grossly covered with dust and dirt. Possible it shorts out for a milisecond when I first power up. I'm going to be replacing it tomorrow, just to be sure before the newest replacement drive shows up. The one in there now is a 320w, but it is a cheapo. It was only $50 for the power supply and case together.

The memory is ok, I had it tested not long ago when I suspected that it might be part of the problem.

The boot sequence has the virus scan and doesn't find anything. I also load and run NAV every other week or so to check and it doesn't find anything either. I uninstall NAV after it checks out clean, because it seems to clash with XP, regardless of what Symantic says about thier patch. I also ran Panda a few days before the latest crash and it found everything to be clean too.

I'm open to any suggestions, sophmoric or not. Hell, it took me a few minutes to realize that GIM was me!

 

[c0i0nes]

Three and a half things come to mind. 1/ Physical knocks - make sure the base unit is not subject to jarring. I used to have clients whose hard drives died, where the common factor was antique and wobbly desks!
Secondly the PSU may not be smoothing the power input properly - try a quality replacement.
Thirdly, thermal problems - hard disks get very warm - does the architecture of your case/fans/airflow subject your disk to poor cooling?
The remaining half? This is the X-File, the paranormal, the "feng-shui" or "Sherlock Holmes" approach to hard problems - When you have eliminated all the probable options, whatever remains, however unlikely, is going to be the solution.
I had 5, maybe 6 hard disks go this year, but they were Fujitsu not Maxtor, and there are reported problems with that series of Fujitsu Drives - I have switched to WD for preference.

 

[GoatIronMaidn]

I have eliminated quite a few possibilities. There are no knocks to the HD, it is secure and the desk is ancient and an earthquake could not move it. I run the unit with the side cover removed and plenty of airflow from 4 fans, not counting one for the processor and another on the vid card.

The most likely culprit is the power supply. I replaced it today and will see how it goes. The problem occurs every morning when I boot, so I should know in a few hours if it is going to malfunction.

I have considered the possibility of a magnetic field and crazier. Being just a few hundred yards from Sandia National Labs, who knows? But I would think they would be more effected than me by anything that might be going on there. I've come up with some pretty strange theories, but the power supply remains the most likely problem.

I'll post again tomorrow to let you know if it has cleared up.

 

[mainegeek]

Have you tried clearing the cmos and replacing the battery?

 

[GoatIronMaidn]

No, actually I never thought of that. If I pop the battery out to take it somewhere for replacement, will that alone clear the cmos? I did reset the cmos to default a while back, on the third hard drive I believe. then changed the couple of things that needed changing.

btw, is there any low cost or freeware that is decent for recovery on the old drive? The only thing that has worked so far is Total Recall from VirtualLabs, but it was a demo and the actual recovery is very expensive. A friend loaned me EasyRecovery from Ontrack and it didn't find any of my files. He also loaned me Partition Magic 8 to see if I could "fix" the old partition, but I haven't tried it yet.

 

[roamer1]

GoatIronMaidn,

Good posts from all above. If the PSU thing doesn't work out- I'll throw you another angle:

I wonder if your neighboring Labs have an effect upon your local power? I have had MANY poltergeist infested systems that smoothed right out with the simple addition of a UPS (battery backup supply). Power spikes and especially "brown outs" wreak havoc on computer systems, and show up often as collapsing networks and corrupted hard drives. The battery can absorb the fluctuations in local power and deliver clean power to the box at all times. If your lights dim alot (or at all) I would consider a UPS. In fact, it is a big enough problem around here that I offer an extra year of warranty if the box is properly attached behind a UPS. If you have a UPS already, check the battery.

PS: Did you check the wall plug as per gargouille?
PSSommore: Do you have a system monitor running that is monitoring temps/board voltage? should be one on your MB's utility disk- or someone could recommend??

 

[mainegeek]

Clearing the cmos usually requires moving a jumper or shorting 2 solder points with a small screw driver blade.
Batteries cost $3-$4 at a local hardware store.

 

[GoatIronMaidn]

Well, the power supply didn't do it. It still takes a minimum of three boots to get to the XP desktop. I'll try the battery and cmos deal, but I think I might just suck it up and grab a new mobo and memory Monday.

 

[TomCologne]

Is your Bios up to date?
Before buying new gear I would give it a shot. I've had a lot of problems with a brandnew mb until I flashed the Bios with a newer version. The mb manufacturer's site should have downloads available.
Good luck, keep us posted,please.

You're not alone,

TomCologne

 

[GoatIronMaidn]

Updated the bios and cleared the cmos in the process, still no change. I downloaded a demo of Sandra, but I'm not sure what I'm looking for to be wrong. Everything seems normal once the machine is up and running, unfortunately it takes several boots to get it up. And this is with the "old reliable" Seagate. I don't want to install the new Maxtor until I know what is going on. I also put on a battery back up and upgraded the PS to Enermax, but no change. Any other ideas, keep them coming.

Maxtor claims to have a new diagnostic that they can run on one of the failed drives to find the source of the problem. I'm a little leary. It is probably a recovery probram whre they back track what I have installed and look for a conflict, but I could be wrong. I'm sending one of the two dead drives to them to check out next week.

 

[gargouille]

Classic symptoms of a bad capacitor, be it on the motherboard or in the PS...doesn't get enough charge to work with the first try...and finally gets charged and is good to go.
Any round parts on the motherboard with domed tops instead of flat ones? (also indicator of faulty electronics)
OFF-TOPIC but here goes:
Wolluf, congrats on TipMaster honors. That identity thing you had going on last week got you over! LOL

 

[firewolfrl]

are you running a GeForce video card????
some motherboards have incapatable voltage to the card that cause the problems you are having.
here is a great link

http://www.tweak3d.net/faq/faq.html

geforce cards require a high degree of current at boot and some motherboard's onboard voltage regulators can not supply that current. (it takes away current from the CPU, Northbridge,etc...)and can be the cause of corruption of system files that are in use at boot time.

this is an extreme link for modifying the video card.

http://web.archive.org/web/20010127183700/http://www.btinternet.com/~p3v4x/vr_mod.htm

*******
try this sequence after the machine is cold and has been of for awhile.
1. turn on monitor and turn off after it cycles on.
2. boot machine
3. if one beep goto step 4. if not one beep but three or more goto step 6.
4. turn on monitor after beep
5. boot up normal
****
6. your machine did not post correctly. if it beeps twice it will not find the hard drive correctly. if it beeps three times it can be the video card.
7. turn off machine 5 to 10 seconds
8. repeat step 1.
9.turn on computer and then turn on monitor within 2 to 3 seconds of each other.
10. repeat cycle till machine boots to 1 beep
****
Maxtor drives have timing issues with some motherboards and do not play well combined with the GeForce card.


good luck!