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On creating 3D games and realistic animations.... 1

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Alt255

Alt255

Programmer
May 14, 1999
1,846
US
I recently found a flavor of the BASIC language that appears to be the answer to many of the questions that appear in this forum. The IT manager at work asked me to try out Dark Basic. All I can say is WOW!. Let me say that again... WOW! WOW! WOW! I hope everybody gets my point.

The language allows most of the standard BASIC commands and offers some extentions that are really out of this world. Using just a few lines of code you can create a fully functional 3D game with all the bells and whistles of a commercial package. The possibilities seem almost limitless.

During my first ten minutes with Dark Basic I modified an example program to create a screen saver that showed a scorpion skittering aimlessly through a room filled with AutoCAD drawings. (My employer frowns on gaming while on the clock but, creating screen savers, well... that might be another story.)

Anyway... you just *have* to get some of this.

The only drawback for some might be in the equipment. Dark Basic requires a Voodoo 2 (or compatible) display adapter with at least 8mb.

Check it out.
 
I looked at your link and they never mentioned Voodoo ANYWHERE. All they said was DirectX 7.

They did, however, say that a P233 and 8mb was required. I have a Cyrix 133 (I think, or a 166), and I don't want to spend an eternity on my not-so-fast computer downloading a 20MB file just to find that I can't even use it! Will it work on a 133? Also, this is really not an appropriate place to ask this question, but how do I find out how much video memory I've got?

Thanks.
 
I had a look, and that looks VERY impressive, do you have a registered copy? i think i might just order that one...

p.s. Rouge2 if you take another look under "virtual reality",on the top right, they do infact mention voodoo, and many other cards.

 
Rouge2, the Voodoo 2 reference appeared in an error message on the first machine I tried to install it on. It had a Diamond Stealth 64 with 4mb, which should have been sufficient according to the minimum requirements. I received the error message when I ran a sample program that included a "Fog" function. Apparently, you don't get full functionality with less than 8mb of video.

PSET, my company has a registered copy. We are looking into the possiblity of using it to create training apps. I don't have a copy on my home machine. I'm like Rouge2, I don't have nine or ten hours to spend waiting for a 20mb download. But I'm seriously considering laying down the extra cash to buy the CD version.

Rouge2, I could be wrong but I don't think there are any easy ways to detect the amount of installed video. There is a small chance that the information would be available in the control panel.

These requirements are listed in the Dark Basic readme...

Minimum Requirements:

Operating System: Windows 95 and 98
CPU Type and speed: 166 MHz Pentium processor or greater
Memory: 32 MB of RAM
CD-ROM speed: 4x speed CD-ROM
Hard disk: 50 MB of hard disk space
Accelerator: 3D Graphic Accelerator Card Required ( 4MB+ )
3D Accelerator Cards: Any cards compatible with DirectX 6.1 or greater

Recommended Requirements:

Operating System: Windows 95 and 98
CPU Type and speed: 200 MHz Pentium processor or compatible
Memory: 64 MB of RAM
CD-ROM speed: 16x speed CD-ROM
Hard disk: 50 MB of hard disk space
Accelerator: Voodoo2 3D Graphic Accelerator or equivilant ( 8MB+ )


 
ALT,
This sounds really promising. Can you give some more information on how close this is to Qbasic? Also do you
think its possible to create unique and innovative games
or are all the tools "cookie cutter" type stuff.
i.e.How much can the tools help you if you are doing unusual animations? How easy is it to integrate "real" code
with this DB environment? [sig]<p>Lupine<br><a href=mailto:RobertCorrina@patownsend.com>RobertCorrina@patownsend.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br> [/sig]
 
Assuming that it's strictly DirectX Compatible, a Voodoo may not be required, as I can name a million cards (including my Geforce DDR) that would perform much better than any of the voodoos (dont get started on the Voodoo5 etc)

also it says it's requirement is
DirectX compatable 3D Accelerator required (4MB+)

so basically any DirectX compatible card with above 8Megs is the recomend, not just a voodoo2, the only reason you should use a voodoo, is if you need Glide Support.
[sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
[/sig]
 
Even though it has the name &quot;Basic&quot; in it's name it does not tie in with QBasic, but it certainly seems promising for those who want a simple method of creating complex games you could normally only find in C++, C++ is still better far as the math goes, but the catch is that you are going to be using DirectX which undoubtly uses C++ or Similar in the creation of the Direct3D APIs. [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
[/sig]
 
kb,
I'm learning C/C++ now. its slow going
I'm ignorant as to any tools I can use
in C for even something as simple as sprite
drawing.
Is there a resource for people interested in
doing C games. [sig]<p>Lupine<br><a href=mailto:RobertCorrina@patownsend.com>RobertCorrina@patownsend.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br> [/sig]
 
Well the key here, is DirectX, you can certainly get the DirectX API for free, the SDK(Software Development Kit) it's one heck of a download tho (About 128 Megs to download) but it comes with Samples for VC++, VB and some other languages, as well as a couple tutorials, it would be more difficult than DarkBasic, but you would have 100% control, and could later learn to support the things in your games that DarkBasic cant support, but I am certainly gona give DB a try just for the sake of the ease (70$ is cheap for a &quot;Development&quot; tool) [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
[/sig]
 
tried some of the demos, the graphic goes smooth, but is the image quality always jagged? [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
[/sig]
 
I see your point, Karl. Some of the bitmaps included with the sample programs are of pretty low quality. Try replacing a few with some of your own and see how they display. The typical bitmap of a &quot;wall&quot; is only 256x256. I'm pretty sure there is a way to rescale the programs to use larger images... just haven't got there yet. I've been a bit busy with some other projects.

Lupine, the Dark Basic developers tout this as the ultimate beginner's language. In part, I will have to disagree. Most of the common BASIC commands (&quot;real&quot; cde, as you put it) are available in DB but the language is a bit weak in string and file handling. It seems to make up for its deficiencies by allowing functions that can't be found in any other version of BASIC. On one hand, it's hard to parse the text strings out of a binary file. On the other hand, it's easy to splatter demon brains with a weapon of your own creation. Which do you want more?

If you're like most of us, you want it all. The language is only in version 1-something and I'm sure we'll see this tool grow quickly as it gains popularity. And, yes, I believe it's possible to write some unique applications with it.

Karl is certainly right in his statement about development tools. Right now, Dark Basic experience won't mean a lot on a resume (nobody has heard of it, yet). It will be a long time before its functionality will approach that of C++ so don't count on it as your primary work language. A few years ago I reached a fork in the road. I had just laid down several hundred dollars for the Microsoft Visual Suite. VC++ refused to run on my 4mb 386 so I decided to learn VB. A few years later, when I decided to learn a serious programming language, I found that my C installation disks had become corrupted. If I had a chance to do it over again, I would find a way to go down the other path.

Still, for $70 (or less for the download), you can't beat DB as a tool or a toy.


[sig]<p> <br><a href=mailto: > </a><br><a href= plain black box</a><br>[/sig]
 
Thank you ALT and Kb
for answering my questions.
I found a very helpful website
that answers alot of newbie
questions:
It's cool, some top level
and indie game developers contribute
articles and tutorials [sig]<p>Lupine<br><a href=mailto:RobertCorrina@patownsend.com>RobertCorrina@patownsend.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br> [/sig]
 
Well, seem like a new language will soon be add on the Tek-Tips site :) [sig][/sig]
 
Let me repeat this: WOW! WOW! WOW! This is the ultimate cool-tool for a young programmer to impress his friends or for an old dog (myself included) to impress his boss. My boss saw an example program I wrote and said &quot;You're a genius. How much are we paying you?&quot; (he meant that in a positive way).

If anyone is interested in this software I will ask Tek-Tips management to create a Dark Basic forum. (This discussion probably doesn't belong in the Qbasic forum. Dark Basic is BASIC but it's intricate details would be best addressed in a separate forum.)
[sig]<p> <br><a href=mailto: > </a><br><a href= plain black box</a><br>Don't sit down. It's time to dig another one.[/sig]
 
Tek-Tips has a new forum for Dark Basic. You can find it by clicking on the &quot;Subscribe to Forums&quot; tab, then Software -> Programmers -> Languages -> Dark Basic.
[sig]<a href=mailto:CraigL@bc-corp.com>CraigL@bc-corp.com</a><br>[/sig]
 
we know Index, me and Alt255 requested it, you may want to make a seperate post, rather than the bottom of this one so everyone can see it, and mark it as a Tip [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
[/sig]
 
Sorry, Karl. I'll do it.

[sig]<p> <br><a href=mailto: > </a><br><a href= plain black box</a><br>Don't sit down. It's time to dig another one.[/sig]
 
Sorry, Karl. I'll do it.
[sig]<a href=mailto:CraigL@bc-corp.com>CraigL@bc-corp.com</a><br>[/sig]
 
Well, since we have a forum for it I guess I'll try it out.
Anybody know if it will run under VIRTUAL PC?
Sorry, but my development machines at home are MAcs
WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!
[sig]<p>Lupine<br><a href=mailto:RobertCorrina@patownsend.com>RobertCorrina@patownsend.com</a><br><a href= > </a><br> [/sig]
 
If your virtual machine will work with DirectX it'll work with DarkBasic. [sig]<p>Karl<br><a href=mailto:kb244@kb244.com>kb244@kb244.com</a><br><a href= </a><br>Experienced in : C++(both VC++ and Borland),VB1(dos) thru VB6, Delphi 3 pro, HTML, Visual InterDev 6(ASP(WebProgramming/Vbscript)<br>
[/sig]
 
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