princecharm
ISP
everybody tells me here Novell is old-fashioned
Is it true?
Is it true?
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novell is old-fasioned? 2
- Thread starter princecharm
- Start date
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Actually, you made my point: "none run on netware". Of course, I shouldn't have mentioned Windows in my previous post since it's not relevant to this discussion. There are other OS's which could be substituted for "Windows"; that just seems to be the way the thread went since the beginning.
Incidentally, I do very little with Windows these days, and a little less with NetWare. I'm focusing on Linux, which is not nearly as good at file & print as NetWare. My point is that file & print is not the only thing that we need from our servers any more. Within my experience, I'd say that if Novell does it, they do it best. There's just a lot that they don't do.
Incidentally, I do very little with Windows these days, and a little less with NetWare. I'm focusing on Linux, which is not nearly as good at file & print as NetWare. My point is that file & print is not the only thing that we need from our servers any more. Within my experience, I'd say that if Novell does it, they do it best. There's just a lot that they don't do.
I have been in mixed Netware/Windows/Unix environments my whole career and Netware/Unix are the only ones that you can setup, turn on and forget its there because once its up it just runs (without Arcserv anyways). C1 is only slow because its Java and the jvm is a system hog but thats Sun's fault not Novells.
LawnBoy
MIS
- Mar 12, 2003
- 2,881
There's just a lot that they don't do."
Have you looked at Netware lately? Apache2, MySQL, PHP/Perl, Java, Tomcat; all with SSL capabilities.
All addressing services (even some of that LanManager splatterfest), routing, filtering, superior authentication syncronization including LDAP,...
This ain't your daddy's Netware.
Have you looked at Netware lately? Apache2, MySQL, PHP/Perl, Java, Tomcat; all with SSL capabilities.
All addressing services (even some of that LanManager splatterfest), routing, filtering, superior authentication syncronization including LDAP,...
This ain't your daddy's Netware.
marvhuffaker
MIS
This is one argument I'm going to stay out of. But I prefer NetWare hands down.
The problem I see is that people who know how to support it is dwindling. Companies that have networks need employees that can support their technology. Anybody knows that a retarded person can bumble their way through a Windblows setup. But to do NetWare correctly takes a little more than that. Marketing has also been Novell's downfall, and people that don't know any better read their IT magazines and only hear about Microfrost and assume it's their only option.
Whether that makes Novell old-fashioned or not, I don't know. Old fashioned can be good or it can be bad, it depends on the person defining it.
Novell's move into the multi-platform arena and specifically Linux is in my opinion an excellent move and will allow them to take back some of the market they lost in the 90's from Microshaft. Maybe in a few years people will understand the terms Stable, Reliable, Uptime, Performance, and "Weekends Off" again.
Marvin Huffaker MCNE, CNE
Marvin Huffaker Consulting
The problem I see is that people who know how to support it is dwindling. Companies that have networks need employees that can support their technology. Anybody knows that a retarded person can bumble their way through a Windblows setup. But to do NetWare correctly takes a little more than that. Marketing has also been Novell's downfall, and people that don't know any better read their IT magazines and only hear about Microfrost and assume it's their only option.
Whether that makes Novell old-fashioned or not, I don't know. Old fashioned can be good or it can be bad, it depends on the person defining it.
Novell's move into the multi-platform arena and specifically Linux is in my opinion an excellent move and will allow them to take back some of the market they lost in the 90's from Microshaft. Maybe in a few years people will understand the terms Stable, Reliable, Uptime, Performance, and "Weekends Off" again.
Marvin Huffaker MCNE, CNE
Marvin Huffaker Consulting
Yes,
Novell is old fashioned:
Its main design goal was performance.......
"makes windows look like a wooden hard drive..."
George Walkey
Senior Geek in charge
Novell is old fashioned:
Its main design goal was performance.......
"makes windows look like a wooden hard drive..."
George Walkey
Senior Geek in charge
Lawnboy, I don't claim to know all about the new features. I have set up and experimented with NW 6.5, but wouldn't call myself an expert. Of course, with my whopping 2 points in this forum I can see how you'd mistake me for one 
Marv's right. NetWare is great at its job, and I also prefer it. My observation is only that its job is somewhat limited compared to other OS's. It has gotten more flexibility in recent years, but it's still catching up. Why is Novell support of the largest open-source projects in the world cause for so much celebration? Everyone else has been using Apache and MySQL for years.
There are more NOS's out there than just NetWare and Windows to look at. In case any one's forgotten that, I received an amusing e-mail today from Novell with the subject "Win NT tech support ends: Consider Linux". The word "NetWare" does not appear anywhere in it.
Novell's still a good company to deal with. I think their best shot is leveraging Linux by porting NSS to it with the ACLs and making the Linux server transparent to NetWare and Windows (as well as to Linux workstations). *That* would be a powerful server worthy of celebration.
Marv's right. NetWare is great at its job, and I also prefer it. My observation is only that its job is somewhat limited compared to other OS's. It has gotten more flexibility in recent years, but it's still catching up. Why is Novell support of the largest open-source projects in the world cause for so much celebration? Everyone else has been using Apache and MySQL for years.
There are more NOS's out there than just NetWare and Windows to look at. In case any one's forgotten that, I received an amusing e-mail today from Novell with the subject "Win NT tech support ends: Consider Linux". The word "NetWare" does not appear anywhere in it.
Novell's still a good company to deal with. I think their best shot is leveraging Linux by porting NSS to it with the ACLs and making the Linux server transparent to NetWare and Windows (as well as to Linux workstations). *That* would be a powerful server worthy of celebration.
LawnBoy
MIS
- Mar 12, 2003
- 2,881
Lol, I believe yours doubles my point count here...
And I'll agree that there's not enough software written to execute directly from Netware. It would be very difficult to have a pure Netware server farm, without another server OS running somewhere.
My favorite part of that amusing email you refer to is:
"Someone who understands that IT professionals have feelings too."
O my, the touchy-feely NOS...
And I'll agree that there's not enough software written to execute directly from Netware. It would be very difficult to have a pure Netware server farm, without another server OS running somewhere.
My favorite part of that amusing email you refer to is:
"Someone who understands that IT professionals have feelings too."
O my, the touchy-feely NOS...
name one service you cant get on Novell besides
multimedia...
George Walkey
Senior Geek in charge
multimedia...
George Walkey
Senior Geek in charge
I can't think of anything that's not available on "Novell". Novell makes a lot of products, and when you count SUSE, there's virtually nothing that you can't do. Well, no Active Directory, but who wants that anyway.
As for NetWare, there are few services which aren't available if you're using general catagories like "database" and "web server". But, there are few products in each catagory available. I'm thinking along the lines of Peoplesoft/JDEdwards, Oracle Financials, network monitoring systems like Openview and Tivoli. Also email, except GroupWise. Mercury used to support NetWare, and maybe still does, but you needed an external SMTP server since NetWare doesn't have one. Plus, no multi-user capabilities like ssh or Terminal Services.
And, limited support for applications in protected memory, but I'll confess that NW5.1 is the last time that I dealt with that directly. It may be improved in 6.x. A hung or abended app often could not be restarted; the server had to be rebooted. I've wanted a "kill" command for NetWare for years.
Many, many people like NetWare just as it is. I really do hope that Novell doesn't eliminate any of the current capabilities. To expand on LawnBoy's comment, you almost always have to bring another OS into a NetWare shop to handle enterprise applications, while you're rarely required to bring NetWare into a non-NetWare shop. Hence the creep away from NetWare even though it does it's job better than anyone else.
As for NetWare, there are few services which aren't available if you're using general catagories like "database" and "web server". But, there are few products in each catagory available. I'm thinking along the lines of Peoplesoft/JDEdwards, Oracle Financials, network monitoring systems like Openview and Tivoli. Also email, except GroupWise. Mercury used to support NetWare, and maybe still does, but you needed an external SMTP server since NetWare doesn't have one. Plus, no multi-user capabilities like ssh or Terminal Services.
And, limited support for applications in protected memory, but I'll confess that NW5.1 is the last time that I dealt with that directly. It may be improved in 6.x. A hung or abended app often could not be restarted; the server had to be rebooted. I've wanted a "kill" command for NetWare for years.
Many, many people like NetWare just as it is. I really do hope that Novell doesn't eliminate any of the current capabilities. To expand on LawnBoy's comment, you almost always have to bring another OS into a NetWare shop to handle enterprise applications, while you're rarely required to bring NetWare into a non-NetWare shop. Hence the creep away from NetWare even though it does it's job better than anyone else.
ITsmyfault
IS-IT--Management
Protected Memory - you can run lots of stuff in it now. I run every Groupwise agent and domain in protected memory. I run nearly all of my Apache servers in protected memory. And yes there is a automatic restart feature (phew!) for processes in protected memory that become unresponsive. Netware Remote Manager (NoRM) displays all the memory spaces you have loaded, shows any abends, etc.
Terminal services - not really. Could probably do a remove X-windows thing but why? I think someone ported VNC over but am not sure.
SSH - is included in NW 6.5
I agree that it would be tough to run a shop on just netware, and it does hurt them no doubt. It is a shame that there are shortcomings in the OS, but IMHO that's different than being "old fashioned". JM2C.
Terminal services - not really. Could probably do a remove X-windows thing but why? I think someone ported VNC over but am not sure.
SSH - is included in NW 6.5
I agree that it would be tough to run a shop on just netware, and it does hurt them no doubt. It is a shame that there are shortcomings in the OS, but IMHO that's different than being "old fashioned". JM2C.
Novell is a cautionary tale.
How can you left your main product and claim
to fame wallow in lack or direction.
For instance I called Novell DC on monday.
Left messages for salesmen there.
Saturday 12/18/04: no return calls.
Thats been Novell's marketing strategy ever since
Noorda retired. And to lose your main developer:
Drew Major. Did MS lose Dave Cutler or Landy Wang?
Anyways, im doing a 5.0 to 6.5 OS and Groupwise upgrade soon.
Maybe ill right a FAQ when its done (working).
George Walkey
Senior Geek in charge
How can you left your main product and claim
to fame wallow in lack or direction.
For instance I called Novell DC on monday.
Left messages for salesmen there.
Saturday 12/18/04: no return calls.
Thats been Novell's marketing strategy ever since
Noorda retired. And to lose your main developer:
Drew Major. Did MS lose Dave Cutler or Landy Wang?
Anyways, im doing a 5.0 to 6.5 OS and Groupwise upgrade soon.
Maybe ill right a FAQ when its done (working).
George Walkey
Senior Geek in charge
MONO rocks BTW
Dot NET on linux?
probable will gain some speed.
(Why does MS have to cache everything just to match Netware and Linux?)
Also, there IS a way to suspend an NLM.
Its in the debugger:
SHIFT-SHIFT-CTRL-ALT
Also, if you need asm-level discussions from some old Novell developers who tried to move the elevator seeking code into the Linux tree (and was rejected). Ill point you there.
George Walkey
Senior Geek in charge
Dot NET on linux?
probable will gain some speed.
(Why does MS have to cache everything just to match Netware and Linux?)
Also, there IS a way to suspend an NLM.
Its in the debugger:
SHIFT-SHIFT-CTRL-ALT
Also, if you need asm-level discussions from some old Novell developers who tried to move the elevator seeking code into the Linux tree (and was rejected). Ill point you there.
George Walkey
Senior Geek in charge
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