Not unreasonable assumption == reasonable assumption? 3

[BillyRayPreachersSon]

A quick search of the forum didn't show any previous discussion on the topic, and as for a Google search? Well... let's just say that I've never, ever seen an answer on Yahoo! Answers worth reading, and I've not been disappointed this time, either

Take the following two statements:
[ul][li]I make the reasonable assumption that you accept the existence of the Moon[/li]
[li]I make the not unreasonable assumption that you accept the existence of the Moon[/li][/ul]

If I was writing a letter, and wanted to convey to the recipient that I believe that they could not reasonably deny the Moon's existence, I believe either of the statements would work just as well.

So, is there a difference? Is one better to use than the other? More importantly, does one have any specific legal meaning that the other does not?

Note: It's not the Moon that I will be referring to in my letter, and personally, I would always choose the first of the two statements... the second seems like "poshing it up" for no real reason (perhaps what Eartha kitt might have referred to as "OED tastes, Collins Pocket pockets"? ;-))

Thanks!

Dan



Coedit Limited - Delivering standards compliant, accessible web solutions

Dan's Page [blue]@[/blue] Code Couch:

http://www.codecouch.com/dan/

Code Couch Snippets & Info:

http://www.codecouch.com/

The Out Atheism Campaign

 

[mscallisto]

Mostly because of the double negative I would definitely go with:

I make the reasonable assumption that you accept the existence of the Moon

And I'm certain that because it's confusing, every [red]lawyer and politician[/red] in my state would go with:

I make the not unreasonable assumption that you accept the existence of the Moon

Sam

 

[DrB0b]

Sorry to be piggybacking kwb's thought process but:

http://www.alphadictionary.com/blog/?p=501

Is another example of bias being thrown into litotes. The reason for it to be said that way is to promote a way of thinking, the it isnt not working mentality when it should be is not working nor is it succeeding in any way.

"Silence is golden, duct tape is silver...

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> Her bias (degree of agreeing) was more towards disagreeing with me.
She explicitly said "not disagreeing", so I'm not sure how you figure her bias was towards disagreeing, although she's clearly not leaning towards agreeing.
Nevertheless, my point is that it's not the litotes that creates the bias. It's the qualitative judgment that creates the bias.

==> Different degrees of reasonableness is bias.
Given that to be true, it follows then that all five of the above statements regarding the reasonableness of the assumption create a bias since each represents a different degree of reasonableness. However, since only one is an example of a litotes, it cannot be the use of a litotes that creating the bias, since the bias is created without the use of a litotes in four of the fives statements.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

 

[kwbMitel]

CajunCenturion - At the risk of getting myself deeper than I really want to, I cannot agree (no equivocation) with your last statement.

The definition of litotes decribes it as a method of understating for emphasis.

Understating for emphasis is a method of creating bias.

It does not matter that the other degrees of bias are not created by litotes. The fact remains that bias was created and litotes were used to achieve it.


**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[CajunCenturion]

==> I cannot agree (no equivocation) with your last statement.
I was never under any illusion that you would feel differently.

--------------
Good Luck
To get the most from your Tek-Tips experience, please read
FAQ181-2886
Wise men speak because they have something to say, fools because they have to say something. - Plato

 

[kwbMitel]

@ CajunCenturion - Lately I've been feeled "trolled" by some of your comments. I don't know if you actually believe some of the things you are saying or you just enjoy the reactions. I don't think I can add any more to my arguments wothout being redundant so I think I'll just leave it alone.

**********************************************
What's most important is that you realise ... There is no spoon.

 

[BillyRayPreachersSon]

Regarding the phrase "the man on the Clapham omnibus"... As I understand it, it is (or was) used to refer to an average person in a court of law. Presumably when first used, it was specifically referring to someone decent - a fine, upstanding citizen who didn't go around breaking the law and upsetting the beaks.

Also explained in Gray's law dictionary.

There are also a few humorous articles:
Man on the Clapham omnibus has his day
Man on the Clapham omnibus retires aged 132

I believe a modern American equivalent would be Average Joe, Ordinary Joe, John Doe, Joe Sixpack (for males) and Ordinary or Average Jane (for females)

In French, apparently, you have Monsieur Tout-Le-Monde or citoyen lambda - and this was suggested by a forum user as another: le quidam moyen

Apparently, the Australian's use "the man on the Bondi tram" or "the man on the Bourke Street tram", and in Hong Kong ,the equivalent is "the man on the Shaukiwan Tram (PDF, page 30 item 95)"

A bit of link-following also informs me that it was the name of a 1987 TV mini-series starring Kristoffer Tabori, Manning Redwood and Lou Hirsch



Coedit Limited - Delivering standards compliant, accessible web solutions

Dan's Page [blue]@[/blue] Code Couch:

http://www.codecouch.com/dan/

Code Couch Snippets & Info:

http://www.codecouch.com/

The Out Atheism Campaign

 

[hairlessupportmonkey]

All assumptions are bad. Deal with cold hard facts, and you cant go wrong then! ;-)

ACSS - SME
General Geek

 

[KenCunningham]

Indeed - Gradgrind had it right:

"NOW, what I want is, Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts. Facts alone are wanted in life. Plant nothing else, and root out everything else. You can only form the minds of reasoning animals upon Facts: nothing else will ever be of any service to them. This is the principle on which I bring up my own children, and this is the principle on which I bring up these children. Stick to Facts, sir!"

The internet - allowing those who don't know what they're talking about to have their say.

 

[BadBigBen]

BRP,

in Germany there are Max Mustermann (Max Specimen/Modelman), replacing Otto Normalverbraucher(Otto Average-Consumer), and Erika Mustermann (see above)...

for those interested:

Placeholder names in different languages

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placeholder_names_in_different_languages

Ben
"If it works don't fix it! If it doesn't use a sledgehammer..."
How to ask a question, when posting them to a professional forum.
Only ask questions with yes/no answers if you want "yes" or "no"