Not getting full burn amount on DVD-RW 2

[dcloud]

I have DVD-RWs that are supposed to be ableto hold 4.7GB. Now I know you can never fit that entire amount on one, but all I seem to be able to get on them is 3.6GB. Is there a way to get more? I'm using a Lite-On SOHW-1673S with Fuji DVD-RW discs.

Thanks.

- dc

 

[cdogg]

I believe the actual amount you can write to a "single-layer" DVD is around 4.34GB.

So 3.6GB does seem to be quite a bit off. How are you measuring the size of what you're trying to burn? What burning software are you using (version)? Try burning to a regular DVD-R or DVD+R instead of a rewritable. You can also try a different brand of disc. See if that helps at all.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[dcloud]

Thanks for the reply, cdogg. I measure the size using my Nero 6 Ultra Edition software (I'm using a Lite-On SOHW-1673S DVD dual-layer burner drive). I open it in Nero ROM or Express and check it there. I also use the Nero Info tool. I have used Memorex and Fujifilm discs. None of my friends have any trouble burning on these discs, so I have no idea why I'm having trouble doing it.

Another odd thing is I have DVD-RWs that are supposed to be able to hold 4.7GB. Now I know you can never fit that entire amount on one, but all I seem to be able to get on them is 3.6GB. I also have DVD-Rs that are suppose to hold the same amount, but they show full at 451MBs!

I find this odd, because I can buy brand new DVD-RW or CD-R/RW discs from Memorex to Fuji and I am always getting these bizarre errors. I don't know if it's maybe my apartment (too dusty or something?) or what it could be.

This drive is only a year old. I tried running another Nero test on a different DVD-RW and I got another error: Media Load or Eject Failed (045300). I tried another disc and got another error: Logical Block Address Out of Range (052100).

This is really weird.

- dc

 

[Sympology]

See if there is a firmware update availble for your DVD drive, may have a bug...

Stu..

Only the truly stupid believe they know everything.
Stu.. 2004

 

[cdogg]

OK, in Nero there should be a file size indicator bar that goes across the bottom of the window. So when you add files to the file layout to be burned, you should see the progress bar increase. There's a red vertical line that shows where the cut-off point is. It should be right at 4.3GB. Do you see that?

Assuming it's there and in the right place, then what happens when you drag more than 3.6GB of data into the layout? Does it give you an error?

Like Stu said, it could be an issue with the drive itself, since you've tried different brands and even NEW discs. A firmware update should be available at the Lite-On's website.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[dcloud]

I've already done the latest firmware update (ver JSOD) so its not that. And yes, I can see the status bar at the bottom of the Nero Express/ROM screen and its at 4500MB (for DVD-R/RWs). That is correct, right?

Seems odd that it would be my drive since it isn't that old. I've been having other bizarre issues with the computer itself and I'm wondering if it could be those things. Just slowness in certain areas, like Boot taking a long time and program freezes. I've already run all the adware and virus checkers so I know its nothing like that.

When I noticed this problem with the Lite-On was yesterday when I tried to access a file on a burned DVD-RW using the File Browser in Photoshop (I have another thread for that here on the forum). The whole program froze when I tried this and I had to reboot the computer to get control back.

I had a friend mention that I should get a new battery for my ASUS P4P800 mobo. Could it be the battery?

Just wish I knew why my computer has these weird issues all the time with discs. Even my DVD player is weird; at least one out of every four or six DVDs I buy end up going bad (getting skips or freezes on them).

- dc

 

[cdogg]

No, the battery on the motherboard keeps the CMOS settings intact when the PC is turned off. It shouldn't have any direct impact on a drive's configuration while Windows is running.

I recommend disconnecting the DVD-ROM drive if it's on the same IDE channel as the burner. Just leave the burner on the cable by itself, set as master and connected to the END of the cable (avoid using the middle connector in this configuration). Might wanna try a different IDE cable as well. Also wouldn't hurt to uninstall Nero, reboot, and reinstall.

See if any of that makes a difference.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[dcloud]

The Lite-On is on its own IDE cable, plugged into the end of it (not the middle). It is already set as the Master CD/DVD device. I upgraded many things on the computer just this summer, including replacing the old IDE flat cables with rounded/shielded ones.

I just did a reformat about a month ago and everything is already freshly installed. I guess I'll try reinstalling Nero anyway.

Also, I just tried using a brand new DVD-R+ and burning some files on it, then I ran the Nero test again and I got the same error on this disc I got with all the others. Something is definitely not right.

- dc

 

[dcloud]

Ok, guys. I just ran a Nero test with a DVD-RW in the Lite-On and it passed. Here are the results:

http://webpages.charter.net/dwcloud/LITE-ON_DVDRW_SOHW-1673S_JS0D_3.html

This seemed to go different because a message popped up when I started the test that said "Run the 'Create Data Disc' test", which had not popped up on the previous discs. So I chose this option under the 'Run Test' I wonder if its because I used InCD to erase and format them?

Any recommendations on formatting DVDs, or shouldn't I have to format them? I'm a complete n00b when it comes to this stuff.

Thanks for all your help so far. Appreciate it.

- dc

 

[kiddpete]

I never format new disks with Nero. It handles the process from raw, unformatted disk to final wrap up. If I'm reusing a RW disk, I use the erase disk option.

 

[firewolfrl]

Try the old ATA 33 cable and see if it will do the burn in full?
It sure does not hurt to try that to see if that is an issue.
The round cables are ATA66/100 cables and that may be the issue.

 

[Nelviticus]

If you have a lot of power-hungry devices in your machine - high-end graphics cards, several drives etc - but don't have a high-quality power supply, that could be the cause of the problem. Just a thought!

Regards

Nelviticus

 

[cdogg]

firewolfrl,
Though I agree with you that it's possible the round cables are part of the problem, I don't think the reason is because they are ATA/100 compatible. ATA/33 devices can run fine on 80-pin IDE cables.


dcloud,
First of all, applications like InCD are for formatting discs so that you can drag/drop files to them on the fly. The format causes them to act like floppies.

When using Nero Burning ROM (or any of the other packaged utilities) to write files to DVD, there is no reason to format them first. Blank CD's and DVD's are ready to go out of the box. The only reason why you would format them is to get the feature I just described.

I'm guessing that InCD only supports CD's, and perhaps that's why you're having trouble after formatting DVD's with this program. Try burning 4GB of data in Nero Burning ROM to a brand new disc without formatting or erasing it first...

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[dcloud]

Like I said in my first post, for some reason I can only burn 3.6GB max on these 4.7GB discs. That seems a bit off to me. I should be able to get more. Perhaps there's a setting somewhere in Nero or Windows that has to be changed?

cdogg, thanks for the info. I'm going to stop using InCD. I was only using it because (in my n00b thinking) I thought perhaps the discs were reporting errors because they weren't formatted first.

The cables are serial ATA-133 rounded cables, with the Lite-On hooked up as Primary Master. When I upgraded the system over the summer I installed a new Ultra X-connect 500W PSU. That should be plenty of power. The PSU also came with rounded/shielded cables.

I guess the only thing to try next is to buy a different brand of DVD discs. Maybe the Lite-On only works good with certain types of discs, although that seems odd as well.

- dc

 

[firewolfrl]

LOL...cdogg I think I have had this dispute with you before on the cables...
On some optical drives...they just seem to work better on the ATA33 cables...some drives follow no rhyme or reason for this. as you read my suggestion. I stated that it does not hurt to try....testing does no harm to the system.
you can also change BIOS settings too. But, its way easier just to switch cables as a test.

I work on ALOT of computers everyday (I own my own repair business). and the fix I stated is a tried and true fix for alot of optical drives. it may not fix this problem if it is related to Media incompatability.

also using drag & drop writing software like INCD ......I don't install it for my customers and I don't use them.
just too many issues and conflicts.

If the IMAPI CD-Burning COM Service is started while using the INCD that just may be causing big issues because that service is based on the Roxio core(Microsoft purchased that bit of code from roxio). INCD and Roxio products are generally incompatable and do weird stuff when running at the same time.

IMAPI CD-Burning COM Service should be set as disabled if running INCD. I believe even NERO states the same in its FAQS

dcloud,
cdogg gives lots and lots of great advice and for the most part he is right most of the time. but I don't always have to agree with him. LOL


good luck

 

[Nelviticus]

Can you always fit only 3.6GB on a disc or does it vary? If it varies it's probably because the drive is wrongly detecting parts of the disc as corrupt and just skipping those areas, leaving less writable space. That would indicate a faulty drive, possibly a laser that's just fractionally out of alignment or something similar.

If you always fit the same amount on a disc - 3.6GB for -RWs and 451MB for -Rs - it sounds more like a software problem, either in the drive's firmware or in Windows.

You mentioned that your PC behaves strangely in other areas too, which makes me think it's a hardware problem. The fact that the drive is only a year old is a red herring - brand new hardware can be faulty straight out of the box. I had a DVD-ROM on one PC and a CD-RW on another that both seemed to work, but each machine suffered from delayed boot-ups and occasional freezes. It turned out that even though they worked most of the time those drives were actually faulty, and in each case removing them got rid of the slow boot and freezing problems.

Here's something you can check: go to Device Manager and check the properties of your IDE controller. For the IDE channel that your DVD lives on, check the properties and look at the 'advanced' tab. What does it say under 'Current Transfer Mode'? Ideally 'Transfer Mode' should be set to 'DMA if available' and 'Current Transfer Mode' should be 'Ultra DMA Mode'. If it's not - if it says 'PIO' - then you know there's a hardware problem. Windows is trying to access the drive in the fastest (UDMA) mode but is falling back to a slower mode due to problems. (Note, the above is taken from a Windows 2000 machine. Windows XP wording might be slightly different).

You can also check your event viewer (somewhere on the Start menu under 'Administrative Tools'). If you see any entries in the 'System Log' about drive or controller errors that's another sign that there's a problem.

Can you borrow a burner from a friend and see whether that works OK? If it does, you know the culprit is your drive! If other burners suffer from problems too, it could either be a faulty IDE controller on your motherboard or maybe a motherboard driver problem. Check the mobo manufacturer's web site for any updated drivers for the IDE controller.

At the end of the day DVD-burners are very cheap nowadays. I bought a 16x, double layer, 'super multi' burner about 9 months ago for only 35 quid (about 55 US dollars).

Regards

Nelviticus

 

[cdogg]

dcloud,
Just to reiterate a bit about what Nelviticus suggested:
He's leaning towards it being a hardware issue, which is certainly a possibility, but like he said you should definitely check the advanced properties of the IDE controller in Device Manager. Make sure it's running in DMA mode 2 (what your drive supports) and not the slower, less efficient PIO Mode.

Also, you said that you were going to avoid InCD. Well before you go out and buy another brand of DVD's, try one you already have (non-formatted DVD that's straight out of the packaging) using Nero Burning ROM.


firewolfrl,
Yes, I do recall our past conversation on this. However, I want you to know that I wasn't saying you're wrong, nor did I necessarily disagree with you to try the older cable. I wanted to make the point that many ATA/33 (UDMA mode 2) devices can run fine on 80-pin cables. An 80-pin cable has the extra shielding necessary to achieve faster transfer modes (ATA/66, ATA/100, ATA/133).

I have respect for you being in the repair business, but you probably know as well as I do that it's easy to fall victim to routine on fixes without understanding "why" and missing the pattern. There is a transfer compatibility mode called IDT (Independent Device Timing). All EIDE drives use this. This is what allows one device to work at ATA/33 and another at ATA/100, for example, on an 80-pin IDE cable.

The "pattern" is usually this...the optical drives that have to use an old 40-pin cable are not true EIDE (Enhanced IDE) drives. Some are just plain IDE. Plain IDE drives can work fine on 80-pin cables, except for when a faster device shares the same cable. That's when the problem sets in. Unless both devices are EIDE, then different transfer modes isn't going to work well if at all.

The good news is that it's not very common anymore, especially with burners. Pioneer has a few models out there that have to use an old 40-pin cable, but besides a few brands/models like those, it's pretty rare. Also, the challenge is that unless the burner is sharing the cable, it should never matter, in theory, if the cable is 40 or 80 pins.

And as a side note for others new to this, there's no difference between an ATA/100 and an ATA/133 cable for example - both are 80 pins. When a cable is labeled as such, that's part of the marketing to let the average consumer know it will work with their ATA/133 hard drive they just bought. There are just 40-pin and 80-pin cables, with 40-pin being restricted to ATA/33 or lower.



~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[cdogg]

Oops, guess I should mention that they're not actually 80-pin cables, they're 80 conductor. All IDE cables have 40 pins at the connector, but the ones with extra shielding use 80 wires, not 80 pins! Sorry!!

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884

 

[firewolfrl]

cdogg,
you are right for now.....LOL.....manufactures sometimes make real CRAPPY drives....I have seen quite a few newer expensive drives that just don't work as expected and some of the cheap drives work great. when it comes to optical drives you have to be specific as to what the customer wants to do with it.
I like Pioneer because it has general media compatability.
Liteon because it is cheap and can overburn. medium media compatability
Samsung just because it is cheap and good medium media compatability
Plextor's are not always the cheapest drives
I try to steer clear of LG drives and any drive that says PNY
Alot of my clients do alot of multimedia type burns so I look for drives that are capable to burn CD text and 96 bytes subchannel data to copy karaoke CDs. CD+G disks can be a pain in the wrong drive.

sometimes it helps to research the manufacturer and read the forums on their drives to see which drive is the least amount of complaints.

I also try to steer clear of drives that need alot of firmware updates to correct errors beyond compatability issues.

But, Alas.... drives are cheap nowdays and there is a large selection out there.

 

[cdogg]

Those are all good recommendations. Personally, I think NEC ranks up there too. They have been the quickest at DVD+R burning (as of last year) and were one of the first to support dual-layer. So I have to give them the nod of approval.


And again, I was just offering an in-depth explanation regarding the 40-wire cables and why they fix some issues. For those who are just entering the field or haven't heard too much about the problem, it helps to know "why". I didn't think it was a matter of being right and wrong in our points of view.

~cdogg
"Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results." - Albert Einstein
[tab][navy]For general rules and guidelines to get better answers, click here:[/navy] faq219-2884