Nortel Meridian w/ Norstar Flash CCR issue 2

[Synapt]

So I was pointed over to this particular forum from the Meridian one as apparently the features in question are part of the Norstar Flash unit, not the Meridian unit. To largely copy what I posted in my original topic;

We have a bit of a hand-me-down old Nortel Meridian w/ Norstar Flash system for our station being utilized in a very basic form. Specifically just like a half dozen phones/extensions and equivalent number of mailboxes. Initial calls ring every phone in the building 3 times and then switches to a configured Automated Attendant with a few options.

This is where the problem begins, recently for some reason though our main automated attendant system or more specifically the CCR seems to have bugged out. When someone calls now and chooses one of the items from the automatic attendant audible, it comes up saying that an incorrect extension was dialed, and to dial an extension if it's known. The further oddity being if you dial an extension configured within the CCR it properly takes you to that particular phone/mailbox just fine.

I have rebuilt the Automated Attendant settings and I also completely rebuilt the CCR tree, I even tried making the CCR tree options where it would just go straight to the mailbox IDs instead of ringing the extension but both things result in the same error about an invalid extension/ID. The only thing I have not ultimately done so far is completely wipe and re-do the whole system, which I'm not against but I'm also not super familiar with these in full (I had never worked with these in the past when I used to work with PBX systems), so I didn't want to risk burning the whole thing down trying to reset the whole thing lol.

Anyone have any ideas what it might be with the CCR? I tried navigating through every available menu option I could via one of the administration phone units but I can't see anything that would make any direct reflection to causing this issue, particularly randomly. Is the Flash/CCR unit simply boned?

 

[John Tel]

Are your lines set to answer the correct and setup table which is set to the correct and setup CCR Tree?

 

[fonedoctr]

CCR tree had to be disabled first. Then make changes and enable it. If you don’t the changes don’t update

 

[MooreTel]

Are you sure that you saved the Tree after making the changes? If not, look for tree #5 which acts like a "Draft". If you find Tree 5, save it as Tree #1. If you've done the above and still have problems, the Tree #1 may be defective. Remake the changes then save the Tree as Tree #2...

 

[Synapt]

Are your lines set to answer the correct and setup table which is set to the correct and setup CCR Tree?

As noted if you dial the extension directly it works fine, it's only seemingly when the extension is transferred within CCR that the issue exists. Noting again as well that this sort of just spontaneously started happening, it used to be fine, and then one day a while back started giving everyone the error w/out any modifications having been made.

CCR tree had to be disabled first. Then make changes and enable it. If you don’t the changes don’t update

That I did not do, I can try that again but if this were the case shouldn't literally deleting the CCR tree and re-doing it still have fixed it? Or do you have to disable the CCR tree even before deleting it and redoing it for it to take affect?

Are you sure that you saved the Tree after making the changes? If not, look for tree #5 which acts like a "Draft". If you find Tree 5, save it as Tree #1. If you've done the above and still have problems, the Tree #1 may be defective. Remake the changes then save the Tree as Tree #2...

I did, once you're done with the tree editing on the phone you literally only got two options, pretty much save and back lol. Also as I noted I even tried rebuilding the entire tree at one point by deleting it and re-creating it. But I had not tried creating it under a separate tree.

Are the trees like actual hardware components? ie; it's possible for a tree to become hardware bugged so you have to use another tree? I'll head up to the station later today and try what you and fonedoctr suggested, see if one of these two get it working again.

Thanks for all the replies! Gotta be honest though this unit is making me not miss my old telecom days lol.

 

[curlycord]

Are your lines set to answer the correct and setup table which is set to the correct and setup CCR Tree?

Synapt:

As noted if you dial the extension directly it works fine, it's only seemingly when the extension is transferred within CCR that the issue exists. Noting again as well that this sort of just spontaneously started happening, it used to be fine, and then one day a while back started giving everyone the error w/out any modifications having been made.

Normally you would use CCR so that caller can press single digit options to get to a particular department or Info mailbox.
At the beginning "You have reached ABC, enter your parties ext or press # for the directory, for Sales press 1... etc etc.
But you are saying people dial an ext/DN from within CCR.
When people call in and get the CCR greeting you then need to press a single digit to get into one of the Paths/Nodes in the CCR Tree.

Need more details...
So what is your setup exactly? the flow and what people hear and press to get where they then enter a DN
What are the Paths set up as? Trsf, Menu, LeaveMSG, INFO etc

Did you verify your changes are taking when you press END, SAVE as Tree X?, YES...?

Are you by chance making your own directory in a Path where you list peoples ext/DN's?
If so what type of Path is it? maybe you creating the wrong type of Path.

Since CCR is not designed to be a "directory" the workaround is to:
-make the Path a MENU such as Path 1
-create a dummy sub Path such a Path 18 and make it TRSF, to Reception (this is what I normally do)

When you create a MENU it is expecting that you will create sub Paths (more single digit choices)
Example:
For Accounting Press 1
Then your Path 1 greeting is "For Receivables press 1 for Payables press 2"

So if you do not do the above and instead list ext's then you need to fool the tree into thinking it's complete by doing the Path 18 trick.
Otherwise when you go to enable the tree in Table you will get "Incomplete Tree"

 

[curlycord]

As for CCR disable and enable...you cannot delete it.

When you got to Table X, CCR you will see Disable, press it then go to CCR to make changes
To Enable you go back to the same place but to Enable it you press the desired Tree #.

That is because you can have Table 1, 2, 3 or 4 point to CCR 1, 2, 3 or 4

As for bugs
Sometime using another Table or Tree may help otherwise you would need to do the REINSTALL method and it wipes out everything.

 

[Synapt]

CCR tree had to be disabled first. Then make changes and enable it. If you don’t the changes don’t update

This appears to have been the main trick, I did not know this nor did the interface give any sort of real clear indication that was an issue. But once I went and disabled the attached CCR in the AA, then went back in and edited things then re-attached it appears to have worked.

Though I now have a new bug, there is apparently a phantom/default AA I can't edit/find lol. One of the CCR menu options is just an INFO type, which I had set to both PREV and HOME on what to do after it finishes (the third option being to hang up). Oddly PREV and HOME takes it back to a completely different GRTG message that does not seem to exist in any editing capacity, I tried loading every GRTG numerical I can (1-9) and only #1 says it exists and it's the one I recorded. Any idea where the other one might be coming from? Or how to force it to explicitly go back to GRTG #1?

Normally you would use CCR so that caller can press single digit options to get to a particular department or Info mailbox.
At the beginning "You have reached ABC, enter your parties ext or press # for the directory, for Sales press 1... etc etc.
But you are saying people dial an ext/DN from within CCR.
When people call in and get the CCR greeting you then need to press a single digit to get into one of the Paths/Nodes in the CCR Tree.

Need more details...
So what is your setup exactly? the flow and what people hear and press to get where they then enter a DN
What are the Paths set up as? Trsf, Menu, LeaveMSG, INFO etc

Did you verify your changes are taking when you press END, SAVE as Tree X?, YES...?

Are you by chance making your own directory in a Path where you list peoples ext/DN's?
If so what type of Path is it? maybe you creating the wrong type of Path.

Since CCR is not designed to be a "directory" the workaround is to:
-make the Path a MENU such as Path 1
-create a dummy sub Path such a Path 18 and make it TRSF, to Reception (this is what I normally do)

When you create a MENU it is expecting that you will create sub Paths (more single digit choices)
Example:
For Accounting Press 1
Then your Path 1 greeting is "For Receivables press 1 for Payables press 2"

So if you do not do the above and instead list ext's then you need to fool the tree into thinking it's complete by doing the Path 18 trick.
Otherwise when you go to enable the tree in Table you will get "Incomplete Tree"

As for CCR disable and enable...you cannot delete it.

When you got to Table X, CCR you will see Disable, press it then go to CCR to make changes
To Enable you go back to the same place but to Enable it you press the desired Tree #.

That is because you can have Table 1, 2, 3 or 4 point to CCR 1, 2, 3 or 4

As for bugs
Sometime using another Table or Tree may help otherwise you would need to do the REINSTALL method and it wipes out everything.

Just for sake of record as well, basically when someone calls it rings every phone in the station 3 times, then goes into the AA system. The AA/GRTG system is indeed used as you said is normal, basically just a greeting message with the "Press 1 for so and so, 2 for etc". 1 through 4 options XFER to extensions in individual offices which then ring 3 times, if nobody answers them it then dumps to that local extensions mailbox. 5 is an INFO audible recording that once done playing is supposed to go back to the greeting again. And 8 is an option that takes a caller directly to our general voicemail inbox.

So this is all otherwise working now thanks to the advice from fonedoctr, with exception of the above described bug when using PREV or HOME as the options at the end of the recording.

 

[curlycord]

3 places that at main greeting can be recorded:

AA/Grtg/Grtg/#
Table X: AA Menu Prompt
CCR/Tree X: Path 0

Grtg - if recorded it will play first
Then AA Menu Prompt kicks in right after (either canned prompted or custom prompt)
But, if you have CCR Tree X enabled then the above AA menu Prompt will be ignored (overridden) and Path 0 of the CCR Tree will play instead.

I am noting the above in case it helps looking for where a greeting might be and when it is played.


In the case of the CCR Tree the PREV should take you to the previous greeting that the caller heard.
Example:
Path 0 (main greeting)
Path 1 (choices)
Path 11 (INFO)

Once you listen to INFO then Path 1 is played again
If set to HOME then path 0 is played again

 

[Synapt]

3 places that at main greeting can be recorded:

AA/Grtg/Grtg/#
Table X: AA Menu Prompt
CCR/Tree X: Path 0

Grtg - if recorded it will play first
Then AA Menu Prompt kicks in right after (either canned prompted or custom prompt)
But, if you have CCR Tree X enabled then the above AA menu Prompt will be ignored (overridden) and Path 0 of the CCR Tree will play instead.

I am noting the above in case it helps looking for where a greeting might be and when it is played.


In the case of the CCR Tree the PREV should take you to the previous greeting that the caller heard.
Example:
Path 0 (main greeting)
Path 1 (choices)
Path 11 (INFO)

Once you listen to INFO then Path 1 is played again
If set to HOME then path 0 is played again

Path 0 does not appear to be the main greeting for us, the greeting defined under the AA GRTG is, at least after the 3-ring no answer kick-in of the AA system.

I'm going to guess the one I was hearing was Path 0 (did not realize that was a thing), as I couldn't play it back like the other greetings but it also no longer appears since I 'deleted' it so to say by recording a blank.

Neither PREV nor HOME return an INFO item from the CCR tree to the AA GRTG, both seem to try and play Path 0, so it seems my only real solution to this is I need to record the exact same greeting for the Path 0 that I have for the AA GRTG as well if I want them to be able to hear the exact same message?

Basically to give a rough tree breakdown of how things are configured specifically (a bit more extended from what I gave above);

Call comes in, rings every phone in the station 3 times. If nobody answers any of the handsets;

• AA GRTG #1 kicks in and gives 6 options;
  • 1 through 4 go to individual office phones, which if nobody picks up those individual phones after 3 rings, it then rolls to the relative office mailbox voicemails and disconnects after.
  • 5 is the above mentioned INFO message that just gives some general information
    • This should preferably go back to AA GRTG #1 after the recorded playback, but instead tries to go to CCR Tree #1 Path #0 whether defined as PREV or HOME.
  • 8 takes people directly to our general mailbox voicemail and then disconnects after.

With that structure of calling in mind, then am I correct that the only solution I have available to me to still let the phone ring before AA kicks in, is to just duplicate my recording for Path #0?

 

[curlycord]

No duplication!

For the main greeting do this:

Grtg 1 - Thank you for calling ABC (ignore line below if it's a 24/7 business)
Grtg 2 - Thank you for calling ABC, our office is now closed (this is optional and can be scheduled to play via Table/ EVE and Table/Schedule for exact times)

Path 0 - If you know your parties ext plz enter it now, for this press that...thank you.

This is where you pay attention to my post above as you missed this part about the order/gluing:
"Grtg - if recorded it will play first
Then AA Menu Prompt kicks in right after (either canned prompted or custom prompt)
But, if you have CCR Tree X enabled then the above AA menu Prompt will be ignored (overridden) and Path 0 of the CCR Tree will play instead."

In other words, since it sounds like your Table's AA menu Prompt is not enabled, then:
Grtg X (day or night) gets glued to Path 0, the caller will think it's one greeting since one will play after the other.

HOME - will return to Path 0 only
PREV - will play the previous greeting, in your case it will be Path 0 which is HOME because your tree is not deep enough.
If your Tree was deeper another level and the caller was listening to INFO in Path 11, then it would return to play Path 1
You are only using 1 level, FYI - Flash has only 2 levels.

 

[Synapt]

No duplication!

For the main greeting do this:

Grtg 1 - Thank you for calling ABC (ignore line below if it's a 24/7 business)
Grtg 2 - Thank you for calling ABC, our office is now closed (this is optional and can be scheduled to play via Table/ EVE and Table/Schedule for exact times)

Path 0 - If you know your parties ext plz enter it now, for this press that...thank you.

This is where you pay attention to my post above as you missed this part about the order/gluing:
"Grtg - if recorded it will play first
Then AA Menu Prompt kicks in right after (either canned prompted or custom prompt)
But, if you have CCR Tree X enabled then the above AA menu Prompt will be ignored (overridden) and Path 0 of the CCR Tree will play instead."

In other words, since it sounds like your Table's AA menu Prompt is not enabled, then:
Grtg X (day or night) gets glued to Path 0, the caller will think it's one greeting since one will play after the other.

HOME - will return to Path 0 only
PREV - will play the previous greeting, in your case it will be Path 0 which is HOME because your tree is not deep enough.
If your Tree was deeper another level and the caller was listening to INFO in Path 11, then it would return to play Path 1
You are only using 1 level, FYI - Flash has only 2 levels.

Yeah disregard me, weeks of dealing with this thing and the 30 year old manuals we had for it made me kind of dumb at first.

I was literally recording the entire greeting and "press 1 for" message ALL under the main GRTG instead of separating it as generic greeting under GRTG and "Press 1 for" under Path 0 lol.

Did that now and it's comes across much nicer thankfully lol. I believe I can file this under fixed now. Many thanks again to @fonedoctr for pointing out having to disable the CCR tree first to successfully edit it lol.