Newbie Question 5

[Louie77]

Hello all, I'm a newbie in here. For the last hour I been looking around here. So far it look good to me.

My question is, what steps do I need to take to be or learn how to be a good admin on windows boxs?

Let me tell you a little bit about myself. I use to work for a E-company as the computer tech. I would build computers and load software and thats it. But now I have to look for other job and most companies need admin for /NT/2000pr & Server/securtiy/DNS/TCP-IP or Domain Setup.

I know how load the software but to maintain is its a little big different. So I'm trying to learn more and more. So if anyone has a good idea let me know or what steps I need to take.

At home I'm running a win98 box plus a win2000 pro box. Right now Im building a linux box that is going to be running red hat 9 ... I look forward to that...

Plus I would like to get my MCSE, so I thought I would buy a book. I like to start from the bottom up. The book that I bought is "MCSE for Dummies" in this book there are 5 books in 1. So far I am learning. But I also would like to get into the SQL and Exchange.

So any good comments or links or site that might help me let me know.

Thank you for all the good help

Louie

 

[manarth]

Hi Louie

welcome to the forum - to begin with, you are in the right place... simply by reading the forum posts, you will learn a lot (or at least I do!)


Personally, I'm very much "networking-orientated" which means I care about networks first and foremost!
Given my bias, my bible is "Mastering TCP/IP for NT server" by Mark Minasi and Todd Lammle with Monica Lammle, pub 1997 Newton Press.
It's incredibly out of date, but it's the book that got me started, then restarted, then restarted again
and TCO/IP is the same today as it was 6 years ago.

I'd suggest a thorough grounding in the principles of TCP/IP - learn the other protocols as required, but TCP/IP is universally recognised.

http://www.learntosubnet.com

may help

Whilst you suggest administering "Windows boxes", you need to become an all-round networker. You cannot administer an NT (or any other) network without understanding what makes the network tick.

In terms of your day to day stuff, you'll probably be doing a hell of a lot of user-demanded activities (creating new user accounts, resetting passwords, etc) - so get yourself an install of NT or 2000 (or both) and practice commmon admin tasks - you will need to know these tasks backwards. And it's simply a case of practice.

Study domain policies and security - these are related to the key day-to-day tasks. Consider stuff like anti-virus; consider any "buzzwords" or trends that may be only 1% useful (to technical users) but can make all the difference when being interviewed by the average clueless HR peep.)

Play catch up - Windows Server 2003 is available as a free evaluation release from M$ - get yourself a free copy, so if you migrate, you've already had a chance to practice - get yourself ahead of the pack


NEVER be afraid to say "I don't know" - if your company has to hire someone to correct your mistake after you've bluffed a fix, you'll be first in the queue for "downsizing". It's easier to admit a lack of knowledge beforehand than after the mistake!


Again, practice. Setup webservers at home, FTP servers, whatever you feel will get you appropriate practice.

When you refer to SQL and Exchange, think practically in terms of your target employer.... if they've only got 20 PCs, an Exchange server may be overkill. Don't waste time learning Exchange if you're not going to use it straight away (OK, maybe a long term goal rather than an immediate goal). As for SQL, it's only of use if you're administering a database, or serving SQL enabled websites (if you're administering a webserver).

If you're thinking about SQL in terms of WRITING a website, this is very different from SQL for serving a website. To be honest, as this stage I would stick to learning one specialisation - NT / 2000 administration, and leave web-design for another day. (hang on, look who's talking - oh well, I'm a bad example to use anyway! But then, I could webdesign before I ever made a reasonable administrator...)

And good luck wherever you end up

<marc> i wonder what will happen if i press this...[ul][li]please give feedback on what works / what doesn't[/li][li]need some help? how to get a better answer: faq581-3339[/li][/ul]

 

[BJCooperIT]

Bravo Manarth!

select * from Life where Brain is not null

Consultant/Custom Forms & PL/SQL - Oracle 8.1.7 - Windows 2000
[sup]When posting code, please use TGML to help readability. Thanks![sup]

 

[Provogeek]

Great post manarth

One thing I would like to add is find books by Laura Chappell - she IS the goddess of TCP/IP If you get lost in any aspect of the protocol, her book spell it out and explain it plain as day.

http://www.nuihotlabs.org/html/laura_chappell_bio.htm

http://www.packet-level.com/

Brent Schmidt CNE,Network +

 

[jrbarnett]

I am entirely self taught in the areas of networking, user/system support and programming and have ended up fixing problems that people with the certifications havent been able to deal with. I have never been on official training courses.
While a lot of techs have them, I don't think much of them because practically everywhere I have found idiot MCSEs and CNE's, having read up just to pass the exams with no real world knowledge, and in every case my technical knowledge has been greater than theirs. I have fixed problems that they have caused many times in the past.

Unfortunately employers look for certification in new recruits these days and that is the only reason I would consider doing it and spending money.

I have written a couple of e-books on areas of my expertise to help me understand them better and put my knowledge in writing (as opposed to stored in brain). I don't claim they are an in depth answer all problems in their areas but they help me. (Available from

http://www.jrbarnett.freeserve.co.uk)

John

 

[Stevehewitt]

Hey,

As with John, i'm completly self taught & IMHO I don't think that certifications are worth the paper they are printed on.

I have been experienced in Computers for about 7 years now, but 3 years ago I joined a company as P/T IT assistant. (Only IT guy in the company). 1 year later I decided we should have a network and self taught myself. Now after playing for 6 months and getting basic file/printer sharing on a Domain network going I went on a MCP course. EVERYTHING they taught me I already knew. The only good thing was the book that came with it! I'm MCP Win2k Server now, but if I went on the course without my previous playing I could still of passed, and I would be a lot worse than I am now! I'm not saying MCP is rubbish for everyone - but IMHO, from experience, I think playing is a lot more beniffical than a course.

You sound like your in the same boat as me about 3 years ago. I wish I had this book back then. It guides you through planning, deploying and administring a Windows 2000 Network step by step. Don't let the publishers put you off (Microsoft Press! ;-)), I swear by it, and have it handy now for reference. Its part of the MCSE training kit. &quot;Windows 2000 Server - Installing, Configuring and Administrating.&quot; For MCP Exam 75 - 215. Brilliant.

Last thing: Tek Tips welcomes newbies. We were all there once (and I think we keep going back as well, the rate technology changes!). If you have a problem research it on the web/F1 key/books first. Still have problems? Post it on Tek Tips. I'm lerking on the Win2k Forums. But I recommend reading this first: faq581-3339 (

http://www.tek-tips.com/faqs.cfm?spid=581&sfid=3339&newpid=581).

And remember, IT may not be fun, but learning is. We are all learning, all the time! Enjoy it!

Steve Hewitt
Systems Manager

 

[Louie77]

I just want to thank you guys for all the good comments that you posted up here plus the links.

**Manarth***
Thank you very much for comment on what I should do. I wrote down some of the stuff you told me to work on.

**Proovgeek**
Well i went to the site, to me it really looks good. If I could I would go to her meeting she has. I tried looking for her book but could not find it. WOuld you happen to have the ISDN number for it?

**** Jrbarnett & Stevehewitt ***
Well both of you are like myself. For the last couple of years that I worked in the computer industry I have taught myself.

I have also learn a lot from asking around or by watching. I talked to my buddies to see if I could get copies of there software. Right now I have server2k /NT/XP/ 2000 Pro.

I just finished installing 2000pro it looks good to me. just working on it to see what it does.

The book you talked about Stevehewitt, would you happen to have the ISDN number for that so I could take a look at it?

Reading all the smart comments on here. I know that in fact I will learn from all you guys & gals. I wish there was a group out there that delt with Win's stuff.

Well thank you all for the help

Louie

 

[svanels]

My network bible is Mastering Windows NT-Server4 also from Mark Minasi, my compliments for your answer Marc, most of these posts are answered with a lot of blabla about A+, CCN etc..

Steven van Els
SAvanEls@cq-link.sr

 

[AIXSPadmin]

It continues to amaze me that people pay hundreds and even thousands of dollars to get a certificate on something that has a shelf life slightly longer than milk.

The paper mills are the one's who are benefiting from an individual getting a certificate.

Unlike a medical doctor who has to get a state certificate to practice, or a cosmotologist to get a license to practice, or bank employees who are required to take classes, there is nothing that requires one to get certified in IS, IT, MIS or whatever acronyms you assign.

The reasons for certification and licenses for some of the careers I mentioned above is because of public safety or health or finances are involved.

One can learn to program from going to Borders and buying a book and going home and installing Java and start coding. Why anyone would pay extra money beyond a book to take a test and get a piece of paper saying they &quot;know&quot; X app/software/hardware is beyond me. And besides, as the date of expiration on the milk in the refrigirator nears, so does having to spend more money to get certified on Java 1.3.2 because it has replaced Java 1.3.1.

If certifications had any value it would be placed there by the government for protection of the public or by business. You can read all the headlines saying that person X makes more than person Y because person X has the xyz cert and the other doesn't.

If you want to spend thousands or hundreds of dollars on getting something, you could spend a $300 and take a college course on Java, which to me would be more impressive on a resume saying they took Java at Local College and received and A than if they got a Java cert from company IMADEMONEYFROMTHEFOOLS.

Some certs with bootcamps or prep courses have spent thousands. A friend one time was thinking of getting his MCsomething and he said it was going to cost him something like $5000. Needless to say he never got it. For that amount of money one could pay for an entire year of classes at a public college.

To each their own, but I don't think that a certification will ever hold real quantifiable value.

 

[Louie77]

***** AIXSPadmin ***

Well its true what you are saying. For me I know how nt works xp and 2000. I load it befor but maintaining it a little bit different. I had jobs ask me if I was cert. I told then that I was going for my MCSE.

I don't know if this is to much, but is $9.000 dollars to much for the MCSE & DBA on SQL plus the training center that I&quot;m looking at I could take the test there. The 9k will also cover the test price. So for all the MCSE course and the real test it will cost me 9k.

Just other qustion for you guys. What sets should I take on becoming a good admin? Like what should I learn first then move on.

Thank you all for the smart coments on here.

Louie

 

[Stevehewitt]

Hey. The book I am refering to is ISBN: 0735617678. The offical title is: MCSA/MCSE Self-Paced Training Kit: Microsoft Windows 2000 Server, Exam 70-215.

I don't know what country you live in but the UK price is about £35, and US $60.

I can't recomend this book enough. It was perfect for me, and you sound exactly like the situation I was in a few years ago.

RE: your question above. Um - what sets?

Do your mean exams? Well I'm bias against all exams, but they may work for you. I've heard some good stuff about MCSA (Systems Admin) but haven't got experience in it. If you need to get a grips with the BASICS of networking on a Win2k network try the MCP course for Win2k Server. (The book I mentioned is written for that course!)

If you want to know how to get started generally, I suggest that you create a mini-network at a home lab or something. Don't need fancy server hardware for a home lab. 2 standard workstations. One with a copy of Win2k Server, other with Pro. (Or XP if you can stand the GUI!) Practice. I also strongly recommend getting to know the TCP/IP protocol and how they work. Also, my consultant (I class him more as a mate now), helped me through the beginning so much I just can't thank him enough!

Bottom line: Play with it. If you get stuck read it up in one of the books mentioned in this thread. Still not sure then post it on Tek Tips.

Good Luck

Steve Hewitt

 

[jrbarnett]

All,

I saw advertised the MCP in Computer Networking as free for the unemployed in a local newspaper, as I am at the moment. I phoned up and spoke to the instructor, who asked me if I had any IT experience. I said I did and told him what, and he said I was overqualified and refused to let me enrol as it was a beginners course.
I think that this means that the instructors realise that the pieces of paper are not worth much.

John


John Barnett
--
Please consider awarding me a star if you feel my posting has been useful. Thank you.

 

[AIXSPadmin]

For $9,000 for a certification, one could pay for half of their tuition (using $150/cr. hr.) at a public college for a bachelors degree!

Amazing!

 

[AIXSPadmin]

As for compensation of spending that amount of money - I have yet to see a company that will pay more just because you have a certificate. I used to work for a Fortune 500 insurance company and the only ones who had any cert were in security who got CISSP. Yet, they did not get a &quot;raise&quot; or anymore compensation for having it.

Most businesses are small or medium in size. If they allocate x amount of dollars for a position, they are not going to go x+2 because an applicant has some piece of paper saying they have knowledge of this.

GIAC security certification covers depth - so much that almost none of it is going to be used in practice. Contrast this with CISSP that covers breadth - more than will be ever used in practice.

If you see that someone earns say 10% more for holding a cert, think that because of the cost most of these places are large companies with money to pay for these costs. And because of the size of the company they pay more for help than a small or medium size company - regardless of certification.

 

[Stevehewitt]

I think we should open this up as a new thread. Anyone agree that we're getting off point?!

Everyone vote if you think we should have a new thread about Certifications?

Steve Hewitt

 

[AIXSPadmin]

NO!

Actually I should apologize for opening up this can of worms. I posted a thread a week ago asking people not to beat this proverbial horse to death anymore.

This topic has been discussed to no end.

In my post - that was removed - I said that everyone has an opinion on certifications. And that is what it is, an OPINION. What I said in my post (that obviously offended someone) was that if people have a question on certifications they should look up the relevant data on the internet because it is all there. And this will lead to something that employers value more than a certificate - ANALYTICAL REASONING, LOGIC, RESEARCH, INDEPENDENT STUDY, THINKING FOR ONESELF.

Obviously that offended someone to tell them to go out and think for themselves, but that is where I stand. I should not have broached the subject again.

Find your own information and come to your own conclusions!

 

[Stevehewitt]

LOL!

I haven't been involved with any certification threads, but I can imagine there have been a few!!! I'll shut up now!

Thanks,

Steve Hewitt

 

[Provogeek]

Well it seems everyone is in agreement that certs are worthless.

However there are a couple of places were certs do get you someware, unfortunitly, it is only to your employers benifit, not yours. I work for a network consuting firm, and here, certs are very important. Novell requires on staff CNE's and CDE's for Patinum status, M$ requires on staff MCSE's for their partnership program. Cisco, Citrix, and a few others I can't think of on a Sunday morning (why thehell am I infront of the computer? oh yea, I'm a geek, thats why) require certs for their partner programs. What does this get the company? It gets use business leads and a few other perks. I can only speak from the Novell team (company is separated in teams of specialty), we get priority access to Novell Technical Service (tech support), free training vouchers, and access to Novell Consulting projects and staff.


Now the second thing certs do for you that I have only heard about and have not verified is collage credit. There are supposedly comunity collages that will give you credit for your certs in MIS degree programs.


Other than those two points, I have not found any value in my certs. They have gotten me no nothing money wise, and they have not advaced my career in any way. They by no means make it any easier to find a better paying job and as it was already stated, most of the people I know that have certs are bumbeling idiots.

Brent Schmidt CNE,Network +

 

[AIXSPadmin]

Do not confuse 4 hours of continuing education units (CEU) with 4 credit hours at a college. They are not equal. 4 CEU's != 4 cr. hr.'s.

Professional CEU's are earned on the standard 1 unit per 10 hours of classroom instruction. Many health professionals (nurses, psychologists, social workers, physicians, etc.) have to receive x amount of CEU's annually to maintain their licensure.

As a graduate assistant I used to review undergraduate transfer students' transcpripts for approval of credit for courses taken at other institutions. No credit, even partial would have been given for a week long class on Cisco routers, even if you did receive 4 CEU's, because as I said, they are not equal.

 

[Louie77]

I notice that some people thing that cert are useless. Well for me I work with computer for about 5 yrs. I know how load the computers OS ... But I also notice that a lot of companies want people with CERT. For I have also heard that there are a lot of Tech guys that are MCSE that don't know anything, or create a worse problem to there network.

For myself I'm looking for something that might help me in my career. If I didn't need it I would not go for it.

But thank you all for the good comments.

Louie