new to IT working world 1

[greetcup]

Hi,

I have earned my A+, Network+, Security+, and MCP certifications, and now I am thinking of taking the 70-291 to earn the MCSA certification. But, I have no work experience.

Do you guys think if I get the MCSA I will get overqualified for some jobs, or I might scare off some employers because of the MCSA? Imagine applying to a entry-level helpdesk or PC technician job and the hiring manager sees that I have my MCSA.

 

[Noway2]

In my opinion, a lack of work experience will hamper you significantly more than having an additional credential.

 

[ousoonerjoe]

Experience goes a LONG ways in this industry, and can count for a lot more than most any certifications you can acquire. Might I suggest you get in the field and get a couple years in the trenches under your belt before attempting another cert. Without trying to sound tacky, nobody wants a "Paper Admin", they want someone that can actually do it.

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“Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month.” --Wernher von Braun
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[hjgoldstein]

I agree with ousoonerjoe.

Go and get your hands dirty for a couple of years. See what the real world is like and then go for more certs.

Additional benefit? Your employer might even pay for the certification and save you a packet.

It is time for pacifists to stand up and fight for their beliefs.

 

[FredWagner]

If you can afford it, work for free to get some experience - check around for non-profit, or local government agencies who'll let you help and learn, and give you a positive reference when you're done. Some might even hire you after a few weeks/months of free internship. In the IT world, experience and ability are worth more than certificates without experience. Once you've got experience, then the certificates carry more weight.

Fred Wagner

 

[ousoonerjoe]

Head hunters tend to have a lot of 3-6 month entry level contract type work. The pay usually isn't the best, but you are not going to make big money right out of the gates... no matter how many certs you have. After a few of those, typically you'll end up with a good sampling and a rather broad overview of what the real world is like. The nice thing is you'll get what amounts to a Paid Internship as Fred was suggesting. Many of those contract jobs can lead to a permanent position as well.

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“Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month.” --Wernher von Braun
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[gbaughma]

If you can afford it, work for free to get some experience

ARRGH! One of my buttons has just been pushed.

If you are working for free, you are taking a job away from someone else, or a consultant.

Additionally, if you work for free, you will be expected to work for free.

You don't see a doctor getting out of med school and offering free surgery on a street corner just to "Get some experience".

Internship? Sure. Entry-level job? Sure. But do NOT work for free. Karma is a bugger, and when you're out looking for a paying job so you can pay your bills, and some guy says "Oh, we'd love to hire someone, but I have my nephew and he comes in and takes care of things FOR FREE" then you'll see what I'm talking about.

Darn it, people, I know that I am as skilled in my field as any doctor in his. Your TIME and EXPERIENCE is worth MONEY.



Just my 2¢

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly replaced his Dilithium Crystals with new Folger's Crystals."

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[ousoonerjoe]

ok... Greg has a point there.
I've actually lost a job because of that exact reasoning. Never mind the fact that the little pip-squeak couldn't use Access let alone code a front end for it and then convert it to SQL, but that's another rant for another discussion.

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“Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month.” --Wernher von Braun
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[FredWagner]

I just thought I'd mention it, because at my current workplace, one of our guys, who came out of the insurance business, got several Microsoft certs, but couldn't get hired elsewhere because of lack of experience, offered to get experience with us for a few months. After about 6 weeks, we hired him. He's been here about 10 years now. It happens.

Fred Wagner

 

[gbaughma]

OK... here's an alternative (constructive) solution.

Now that I'm off my rant.

Temp agency.

Go to a temp agency, such as Manpower or Express Pros or whatever. They'll give you an aptitude test (typing, data entry, pc work, whatever) and place you in jobs.

Then you get experience. The *nice* things about temp agencies is that:
1) They may turn into full-time jobs through a buyout.
2) If it's a bunch of short-term jobs, your resume still says "Worked for xxx temp agency for 2 years"... it may be that you worked 12 jobs in those two years, but it still counts as 2 years of continued employment.

A temp agency is a great way to get your foot in the door in tech, and build work experience.



Just my 2¢

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly replaced his Dilithium Crystals with new Folger's Crystals."

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com

 

[stubnski]

--> If you are working for free, you are taking a job away from someone else, or a consultant.


I see your point but that is not necessarily true. I volunteered at a company doing inventory, replacing mice/keyboards, cleaning out printers for around two months. The IT staff at the company was more than happy to have me do that work for them and they gave a really good word for me to another company for an entry level position. That is how I got my foot in the door and it has been working out well since.


Stubnski

 

[greetcup]

Could you guys give me an idea of how you found volunteer work or an internship other than the usual job application online?

Like did you call the company directly, or walk in the store directly, and what did you say?

 

[DonQuichote]

Just in daily life. When I was a student, we were building an aircraft and I did some programming for that group. Besides that, I programmed things just as a hobby (yes I am a nerd!) and that is also experience. It is something I state at my resume and it has helped.

If you don't have a life, or just want to do good and gain experience as an extra, you could always join an open source project.

+++ Despite being wrong in every important aspect, that is a very good analogy +++
Hex (in Darwin's Watch)

 

[tcsbiz]

About working for free... it may be illegal in your area.

If you work for free, you are saying that "my time, skills, and knowledge are worthless." You're saying that you don't value yourself.

There are two instances where I will work for free. The first is to help out a family member or friend. The second is volunteering for charitable causes.

Voulnteering for a charitable organization may be a great way to get the experience.

I also like the idea of temp agencies. They may be able to get you a wider breadth of experience.

 

[kmcferrin]

Never work for free, unless you're doing it for a charity and you have strict limits around how much time/effort you are willing to contribute. If people do not pay for your services then you will no value them, and you can easily get yourself into a situation (especially if you are inexperienced) where something that you do wasn't correct or caused other problems that ends up costing you a large number of "free" hours to fix.

Get yourself an entry-level IT job and get some experience for pay.

________________________________________
CompTIA A+, Network+, Server+, Security+
MCTS:Windows 7
MCSE:Security 2003
MCITP:Server Administrator
MCITP:Enterprise Administrator
MCITP:Virtualization Administrator 2008 R2
Certified Quest vWorkspace Administrator

 

[greetcup]

Thanks guys for all your responses.

But my question is should I get the MCSA and get it out of the way? I know that experience itself is more valuable than just certifications.

So would an MCSA on a resume scare off employers if I apply to an entry-level helpdesk job even if they see I have no experience?

I am a little concerned because the MCSA might become obsolete soon.

 

[hjgoldstein]

As I said above, I would leave the MCSA for now. Get a job, show your employer what you are capable of and then after you have proved yourself he may well pay for your certification study (whether it be MCSA or a successor.)

Even if he doesn't, you've lost nothing.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do.

It is time for pacifists to stand up and fight for their beliefs.

 

[ousoonerjoe]

You can get the cert along the way. Many of us here got our certs/degrees while working full time. I suspect the cert would be overkill and would be preventive. People with certs and degrees tend to want more money than an entry level position can pay. HR departments are away of this and will deem you "over qualified". They will also deny you based on the fact that the job does not match the full set of skills you have and expect you to leave in a year or two so you can utilize all those skills and make more money at it.

Your experience is going to much more vital than your certs.

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“Crash programs fail because they are based on the theory that, with nine women pregnant, you can get a baby a month.” --Wernher von Braun
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[FredWagner]

Greetcup - gbaughma's Temp Agency suggestion is a good one. Another approach would be to approach organizations that you would like to work for, or intern with (interns are sometimes paid, sometimes not), and ask for an 'Informational Interview' - with an IT manager, or Help Desk Manager, and ask that person for advice about getting started in the field - the same kind of questions you're asking here, but in person. You might get offered a position or an internship, or get a personal referral to an acquaintance in another organization who would have an opportunity for you. This is Personal Networking that you will read about. Give it a try, and keep us posted on your progress.

If you haven't already got a copy of 'What Color is your Parachute' by Richard N. Bolles (Ten Speed Press), do so - a lot of what we're suggesting here is covered in the book.

Fred Wagner

 

[gbaughma]

What color is your parachute". Good read... I had forgotten about that book. Thanks.



Just my 2¢

"What the captain doesn't realize is that we've secretly replaced his Dilithium Crystals with new Folger's Crystals."

--Greg

http://parallel.tzo.com