New Mobo will not post!! Need some help... 1

[CptnJon]

I have an old (2001) IBM NetVista which was having all sorts of problems which I eventually traced back to leaking capacitors!! After a number of calls to IBM they agreed to send me a new motherboard (their action/reaction helped restore some of my faith in the goodness of people!).

So when I got the new mobo I took the CPU and heatsink off the old one and transferred it to the new one (with some thermal paste). I then connected the PSU; the bare essentials (monitor, 1 stick of RAM); and then plugged it in... The heatsink fan and the PSU fan both turn on right away and keep running... but nothing else happens. Pressing the power button on the front does nothing and I notice that no lights on the front panel light up!

I also have another almost identical computer... so I tried the same thing... disconnected everything except the items above and plugged it in... this computer initially starts both fans then turns them both off. Then when I press the power button it starts up and I see the IBM logo on the screen... of course I also get some beeps because it can't find certain things like mouse & keyboard..etc.

Does anyone have any ideas on what could be causing this?? How do I debug this issue??

I read that if I unplug the CPU heatsink fan and turn on the computer that the heatsink should get hot fairly quickly and that if it doesn't get hot it is an indication that the CPU is the problem... I tried this and there was absolutely no heat... however I am not sure that this means a lot because since the power button doesn't seem to be turning the computer on, I don't think any power is being sent to the CPU... does this make sense??

I also wondered whether or not the mobo was being shorted with the case... so I pulled it out, set it up on some cardboard and tried it again... same result!!

Then, still on the cardboard, I tried it with the PSU from the other computer... again same result!!

Could the CMOS battery be causing a problem like this??

What else should I be looking for??

 

[garebo]

First off, i would reset the bios. You want to check the manual on how IBM wants it done for this system. It should be in pdf format at IBM, I have done a few netvistas.
Make sure you follow it exactly.
If you cant find it i will find it for you.
check the cmos battery and make sure its at 3 volts. However, the battery likely wouldnt stop the pc from booting.
You also want to make sure the bios is set right for the cpu you are using. Its likely fsb is 100, so if you have say a P4 1.8 mhz it would be 100 x 1.8, and so on, for the setting in the bios for the cpu.
Also you can set the bios to minimum default if you can get to it by first re-setting the bios.



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[CptnJon]

garebo...

Thanks for the reply... I have the downloaded manual and tried a few things... I tried pulling out the battery for a while and then reinserting it. The only difference I found was that the fans do not turn on right away when I plug the PSU into the wall. Now I have to press the computer (not the PSU) power button to get the fans started... however this is the only change. Still cannot get any beeps nor a video signal! The power button will also now turn off the computer if I press it for a few seconds.

Next I followed the procedure in the manual with the jumpers to clear the CMOS... There was no noticeable difference...

I also tried changing the battery... again nothing.

Given that the power button now seemed to be doing something (i.e. turning on and off the copmuter) I reasoned that the power was getting through so I disconnected the heat sink fan and started the computer... this time the CPU did in fact get warm after a short while so I knew that power was getting to the CPU...

Then I decided to do another test... Since my old defective mobo did boot (it just crashed very often) I pulled the CPU and heat sink off the new mobo and put it back on the old mobo; I placed a single stick of RAM and connected the keyboard and mouse to that old mobo. Then I powered it up... wouldn't you know it... it fired up right away... right into the BIOS!!!

Conclusion: the mobo that IBM sent me is defective!!!

I have a call in to them to see what they will do this time!! It should be interesting because they told me that they were sending it to me without any warranties!!

Another test of my faith in the goodness of people!

 

[garebo]

As long as you moved the jumper and took out the battery and removed all power to the mobo when you did the bios reset, then, yes, maybe you have a bad mobo.
Are you sure you followed IBM instructions regarding this?
These instructions do vary from mfgr to mfgr.
Also, read the manual for certain jumper settings on the motherboard. There may be a factory setting for something on the mobo that has to be changed when you get it.



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[CptnJon]

garebo,

Here is an excerpt from the manual (in the section on erasing a lost or forgotten password)

Erasing a lost or forgotten password (clearing CMOS)
1. Turn off the computer and all attached devices.
2. Unplug the power cord.
3. Remove the cover.
4. Locate the Virtual Clear CMOS/BIOS Recovery jumper (JP14) on the system board. See “Identifying parts on the system board” on page 44 (microtower model).

Note:
Your system board might have two similar jumpers in the location indicated. Make sure you move the jumper labelled JP14.

5. Move the jumper on JP14 from the NORMAL position to the ROM RECOVERY position.
6. Replace the cover and connect the power cord.
7. Restart the computer, leave it on for about 30 seconds. When you hear beeps, hold the power switch for approximately 10 seconds to turn off the computer.
8. Repeat steps 2 through 4 on page 56.
9. Move the jumper on JP14 back to the NORMAL position.
10. Replace the cover and connect the power cord.


I followed these instructions... and never got any beeps!

I notice that you said "and removed all power to the mobo when you did the bios reset"... the IBM instructions tell you to apply the power after you switch the jumper... is this different than what you are suggesting??

 

[CptnJon]

garebo,

I just reread your last post and it made me think... the only jumper referred to in the manual was the one I quoted in my last post... however what has me wondering is the fact that there is another jumper (JP#10) right beside the one referred to in the manual (JP#14) and looking closely at the board I can see the following printed on the board

JP 10: 1-2 CMOS Normal
2-3 CMOS Clear

Is this the jumper that I should be using to reset the BIOS rather than the one in the manual, which is used when there is a lost or forgotten password??

 

[garebo]

Yes! And it seems to me I recall having that issue before. That is one of the reasons i said to read the manual.
Do what it says but do it from JP 10 instead, Im pretty sure thats what i had to do with the system i worked on.

Its very mis-leading. YOu dont want the lost or forgotten password you want the other. In other words i had the same issue with the same motherboard as i read it wrong as well, lol.
Do the JP 10 and see what happens, JP 10 is the right one right now.
If you get a prompt for a password and you dont know the password then you will also have to use the other jumper 14!
HOpe it works!!




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[CptnJon]

garebo...

I tried JP10 and when I do absolutely nothing happens... that is, even the fans don't start up! I tried both JP10 and JP 14 at the same time... again abolutely nothing... Finally I tried JP14 again and no change from the original situation... fans work but no posting!

In case an image helps I am trying to attach an image of that section of the motherboard: A - shows JP14; B- shows JP10; and C- shows the printing on the board referencing JP10.

Any other thoughts on what I can try??

Thanks...

 

[garebo]

I would try the jumper 10 just one more time. But it does seem you have it all correct, from what i have read above.
Just wont hurt to try again is all. But it IS jumper 10 that you want.

After that, we should start all over, sorry to say.
Have the mobo out of the box and on the table. Put some carpet or foam or something under it to protect the solder points.
Take everything off the mobo, ram, cards, cpu\fan\heatsink.
Now check the mobo for bad caps. YOu can go to badcaps.com for info. Either way you are looking for caps with rounded tops. Caps are capacitors, the small round cans all over the mobo. If any tops are rounded that will be the problem.
After that check the mobo for loose solder or parts on it.
Dont bend caps to find out, just touch them a bit.

Have a look at the manual and the pic of the mobo and printing about its parts and jumpers. Make sure all is well there.
Then check cpu for anything abnormal. If ok put thermal grease on cpu after putting cpu in socket. You can use part of a playing card to do that. Put heatsink\fan on. The hs\fan, as i recall are pretty large but easy to work with. I think they screw down, right?
Make SURE fan is connected to the fan header right near the cpu\hs\fan setup. Check the manual for that as this could even be the prob.
Then install one stick of ram, keyboard, mouse, video and power supply, make sure you have installed the 4 pin and the 20 pin for the power supply, right?
Check the manual for pins for the onboard video and make sure that is correct. If i recall you can change the pins if you want to use a pci or agp vid card, but i could be wrong on this step, its been a while.
Now try and boot.






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[garebo]

One more item. Dont connect any case wiring. Just use a flat screwdriver to touch the 2 pins to fire the power supply.


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[garebo]

Also, not that it matter, on the pic you showed, if you look to the left it has 2 solder points and it says jumper 14 virtual clear. Is that where you clear the password?
If so i imagine you have to use a screwdriver to touch the 2 solder points. But check manual for that. You likely dont even have to do this as you never set a password for the bios or you would have said so. In addition, your setup should boot to the bios and then ask for a password if there is a password, so it shouldnt matter at this point because we havent got it to boot yet.
Im just trying to cover all possible issues here.


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[CptnJon]

garebo,

Okay… I tried the JP 10 a few more times… each time with the same result… that is absolutely nothing happens!

The mobo is already out of the case and on a cardboard box.

I looked at the caps to see if they look bad but they don’t… (the original board had bad caps which is why IBM sent me this new one).

I cannot see any loose solder or parts on the mobo.

Unfortunately the manual pic is not very detailed the only jumper even talked about in the manual is JP14 which is for resetting lost or forgotten passwords. I scanned the board and compared it to the original mobo and nothing looks out of line.

I looked at the CPU and it looks perfectly normal and in fact as mentioned in one of my posts I put it back on the old (bad caps) mobo and got that unit to post!! (that mobo always booted but crashed frequently). I replaced the cpu using Arctic Silver 5… the heatsink/fan is not too difficult to hook up but no it isn’t a screw down type, it has the clip. The fan is connected to the connector “CPU FAN”

I installed the 1 stick of ram; keyboard, mouse; video and power supply. You asked “make sure you have installed the 4 pin and the 20 pin for the power supply, right?” I only have the 20 pin connector! What are you referring to when you say 4 pin??

Re video… there are no pins that I can see for the onboard video… this board doesn’t have an AGP slot.

I don’t understand your comment “ Dont connect any case wiring. Just use a flat screwdriver to touch the 2 pins to fire the power supply[i/]” By case wiring I assume you mean the power button switch, right? What I did was pull that switch out of the case and put it directly into the 8-pin connector on the mobo. I know the switch works because I connected it the same way on the old mobo and it worked fine. When you suggest touching 2 pins with a screwdriver I wouldn’t know which two pins of the 8 to touch! If I did touch the wrong ones can I short out something else??

You asked “ on the pic you showed, if you look to the left it has 2 solder points and it says jumper 14 virtual clear. Is that where you clear the password?” … No… in the pic, adjacent to the “A” you can see ‘JP14 CMOS’ in the small red circle which is simply the description; the larger red circle is the 3-pin JP14. Beneath the “B” you can see ‘JP10’ in the small red circle which is simply the description; the larger red circle is the 3-pin JP10. I don’t know what the jumper with the 2 solder points is for… it seems to be labelled ‘J17’.

I will wait for your reply on the few questions I asked before I go any further… thanks

 

[garebo]

The last thing, the 2 solder points, i was just checking to make sure, so all is well there i suspect.
And, yes, its a clip-down, i was thinking of another, but i do have the right mobo in mind now, i have one of them here.
Only 2 things here to get right in our minds.
First, and most important, this may be the whole problem. You have a pentium 4 cpu, right? So you have to find the 4 pin connector from the power supply. It will have 2 black and 2 yellow wires, 4 in all. This MUST be connected to the corresponding connector on your motherboard. If not, it wont boot. It has to be there. Its for all P4 systems, has to be there.

The other item, i just went and looked at the case to motherboard connector and you are right. They are all together, which is non-standard but its ok.
There is a black plastic connector, likely near the edge of the motherboard and you connect all the case wires to it, right? If so then the 2 pins that start the pc are the 2 on the right end. It doesnt matter, you can touch a small flathead screwdriver to the last 2 pins on either end. IT will either start the pc or not but you wont short anything out for sure. I have done this a million times, give or take nine hundred thousand, never a problem. So its ok to do. But if you are sure you have the right wires in the right place then you dont have to do the screwdriver thing anyway. But if it wont boot after you make sure you install the 4 pin Pentium 4 connector, then take the wires out of that black connector and touch the 2 pins on either end to start the pc up.

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[garebo]

Since you know the switch works, you dont really need to do the screwdriver thing.
I am hoping that you didnt connect the Pentium 4, 4 pin, 2 black and 2 yellow wire connector that comes from the power supply and connects right onto the motherboard. The pc will NOT boot if this is not connected. Im hoping this solves your problems!


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[CptnJon]

The computer has an Intel Pentium III processor... the psu only has the 20 pin connector and connectors for the drives!! I don't think that this board has a 4 pin, 2 black and 2 yellow wire connector, right??

I tried what you suggested with the screwdriver on the 2 pins and the same result... fans run but no posting...etc.

Any other thoughts??

 

[garebo]

Really sorry, i was thinking you had P4. Im really sorry about that! I have a bad habit, not re-reading the original post.
Also, i am used to seeing posts on IBM Netvista P4's. And indeed they do screw down the cpu\hs\fan, i went and looked, not that it matters.
Thats why there is a bit of difference, but the 4 pin connector is only for P4. Heck, i was hoping that would solve the problems.
Im at wits end here.
The only other thing i can think of. Check the new mobo you have and check the old one, see if any jumpers are different anywhere.
Also check your cmos battery, the round coin battery. If you have a tester it has to register 3 volts, 2.8 or under and it has to be replaced. I dont see that as the solution to your problem, though, and you could just swap the battery from your known good unit.
Try hooking up just one item to ide, like a hard drive, who knows, it could help.


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[garebo]

By the way, the replacement mobo, is it exactly the same as the original one?


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[garebo]

I have now re-read your orig post, thats what made me think of asking is the mobo the exact same.
Also, you mention not being sure the mobo is getting any power. Well the switch could be bad so lets move to the screwdriver thing.
Unhook the power connector from case to mobo. Trust me, please, on this, all will be well. Take a small flat screwdriver and press it onto 2 of the pins. On my netvista the power connector has many pins and its totally opposite the i\o connectors. With the mobo in front of me, with the i\o connectors closest to me, then its the last 2 pins on the right side in that set of connectors. I cant remember how many there are, maybe about 8 or 10. So first try the last 2 pins. Just leave the screwdriver tip touching the 2 pins for about a count of 3. If that fails then go to the other end and try the first 2 pins on that end. If that fails, try touching the other pins with the screwdriver. It will boot or not, but no damage will occur.
Hopefully it will boot.


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[garebo]

Again, i am very sorry about the P4 thing.
But the screwdriver trick, i do almost every day, done it to a few hundred mobos and never any damage, so its safe.


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[CptnJon]

Both boards appear to be indentical... I tried the screwdriver thing and it starts the fans but will not get any further!

I also hooked up a hard drive and started it up... I can hear some low level noise coming from the drive so I know that it is getting power... but still no posting...

One thing that bothers me is that when I start it up with the 8-pin case to motherboard connector the power led on that connector doesn't light up... but when I try the same hook-up on my old mobo the power led lit up right away!