New in the IT world.

[leiela]

Having spent many years working a minimum wage dead end job where my manager contently took advantage of my IT skills and general willingness to go outside my job description.

I finally realised after 7 years of hollow promises that i was never going to progress and it didn't matter how many late nights i worked, how many databases i wrote and managed he was never going to recognise my skills and pay me the wage i deserved.

Taking a huge leap I put my family into a huge amount of financial debt, by reducing my hours to part time and paying my way though university.

I cannot begin to express how grateful I am to my husband and children for allowing me to suddenly go insane and reach for something better.

Despite the long hours, sleepless nights and financially struggling for 5 years I finally achieved my goal a degree in software development.

My first job was a temporary position I was neither qualified nor experienced for. A large company needed a project manager for a project that had been in the running for 4 years ... or should i say had been failing for 4 years...and continuing as the project had started they hired me because i was cheap.

I was hired as a last ditched effort to get the project off the ground and I was the most technically minded person in the department, which as a new graduate really doesn’t say much.

Very quickly I learnt I needed to get out, the people where great and I loved the job every day was a new challenge, but on a temporary contract I was in a job I wasn't capable of doing. My only comfort was the people around me had less of a clue about what was going on than I did.

After three hectic months I walked into another job, I like it here the people are friendly and unlike the last job they don't seem to expect miracles. I’ve been hired to write Crystal reports and its going well, I feel like I ask a lot of dumb questions but people seem to expect it as I was hired with no priory Crystal experience

However I’m worried about my career. I never though much beyond finishing my degree and getting a job, but my family have been so supportive and but I really want to do my best for them in return.

I get the feeling if I stay here indefinitely I could still be writing crystal reports in 10 year. The IT world changes so fast I worry that if I stick doing this one thing, I may find one day that I’m out of a job with skills so out of date I struggle to find something else.

Not only that but I’m not sure what the skills worth, I’m currently being paid slightly less than my previous job but its will within my pay expectations as a graduate, but is it likely to go up?? Should I expect the pay increases my graduate friends are getting as developers, programmers and system analysis or should I use this as a stepping-stone and keep looking for a development job?

So basically what I want to know is, does Crystal have a good future? More importantly will they be good prospects for me in the future? How should I look forward with my career?? And in fear of repeating past mistakes how do I make sure I keep being paid a competitive rate for the job I do?

 

[RiverGuy]

Crystal Reports has been around for a long time, and will continue to be out there for quite a while in my opinion. However, many businesses use an array of reporting or business intelligence solutions in addition to Crystal Reports. If you want to stay in the reporting/BI field, you might consider seeing if your company uses other technologies which you would be able to learn such as Business Objects, Cognos, SQL Reporting Services, etc.
This will give you a more rounded background in this area, allow you to be a candidate for more positions in the future and show that you've been willing to learn multiple technologies. Crystal Reports is sometimes used as a "quick and easy" reporting solution, or for personal or departmental use. Some of the other solutions are typically deployed to be more client/server-based and built around data warehouses.

If you want to move to more of a 3GL development role (Java, .Net, C++, Database Architect), then yes, I would suggest using this as a stepping stone, but be sure to stay current on your software development skill set. Maybe your current company will have an opening in this area at some point in the future?

Another thing to keep in mind is that you may well have to move to another company in a couple of years to receive a market-level salary, especially if your current company only allows a maximum percentage increase. It's not uncommon for someone new to IT to have to make a move after a couple of years.

 

[Welshbird]

leiela: I began using a similar type of product to report on raw data, but some years ago.

I'm not sure that what I did was the best idea, but it certainly worked out for me.

My plan was to get myself a copy of MS SQL first, and start building reporting systems from scratch. I then started on Oracle (free for such purposes) and kept teaching myself a bit at a time.

I did eventually end up moving into Business Intelligence and it has been a great decision.

So, for what it's worth - I would start teaching myself the things that underly the crystal reports - even if you don't want to end up in that field later then the greater understanding of the underlying stuff can't harm in any way.

Fee

The question should be [red]Is it worth trying to do?[/red] not [blue] Can it be done?[/blue]

 

[leiela]

In my job i work closely with SQL and Oracle as well as crystal, infact it was my experience with oracle that got me the job. So im pretty competent at pulling data from a database without the nice pretty interface crystal provides, and tbh i enjoy working with databases.

Is specialising in crystal by staying with the company I’m with now going to limit me long term? well obviously it is.. but is that going to be a bad move career wise.. Everyone specializes to one degree or another, but is crystal a bad choice?.

I took this job on graduate wages... actually they where pretty low even for a grad. Tbh now im here I have feeling I could have got more money if I'd even attempted to negotiate rather than accepting their first offer.

Question is what do I do from here?? I'm not the type of person who bounds from company from company, but at the same time all the friends I left university with are already on a lot more money than I am, and no offence many of these people are far less competent than I am.

When my pay review come up how do I go about negotiating a better wage? I’m guessing they are going to try and get away with giving me as little as possible but how do I do the best for myself.

And at what point do i look at moving? i know the only real effective way of getting a decent pay rise is by moving company but at the same time i don't want to hop companies too often encase it looks bad on my CV besides I’m kind of happy here.

If I can't get a decent wage by negotiating how long should I stay to get the experience I need so my CV looks nice?? I want a decent wage without looking unreliable.

 

[spamly]

If you have a good boss, you can discuss these issues frankly with him or her. Discuss where you want to be professionally and be prepared to present a detailed plan for how you want to get there. Unfortunately, many employers have strict job categories which don't allow for quick career progression. For example, some reward career longevity more than talent. You may want to check with your HR department to find out what it takes to qualify for a higher "bracket".

From my experience though, the best way to get the pay you want is to negotiate it during the hiring process. I personally know two complete idiots that negotiated great salaries that they didn't deserve. Both employees had outstanding interpersonal skills and consequently impressed the interviewers. Once they were in the door, the employers discovered their lack of talent, but decided to give them a chance anyways. In both cases they stayed on for the long term and still enjoy a healthy salary. That said, I think it says something about their integrity when they "sell" themselves for wages that they don't command. This is all slightly off topic though.

My point is that you can probably get a better wage by moving on. Could moving on too fast impact your overall career? Absolutely. You need to make an honest evaluation of your own skills, the market, and, if you're willing to take some risk, do it. I would work on brushing up your resume and interviewing skills before taking the leap.

 

[SQLSister]

If you like the company see if they can move you to a position with a differnt title (due to expanded duties is the usual excuse, if you can get your duties expanded beyond Crystal to database querying, then you have a shot at this). Usually promotion or change to a new job title are the only ways to get a substantial raise and stay within the company. Moving to a new company is the other way to get a substantial raise.

"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared

 

[AndrewTait]

i know the only real effective way of getting a decent pay rise is by moving company but at the same time i don't want to hop companies too often encase it looks bad on my CV

For a new graduate, I would not expect to stay longer than 2-3 years at the most. I stayed for 4 years in my first job, and ended up hating it.

I've since moved every 3-4 years since, and know people who have moved more than that. Sometimes for their own reasons, sometimes because they didn't have a choice. Neither reason seems to have made any difference in their employability.

I know one guy I was uni with, who moved 5 times in the first 6 years of leaving uni. He has now been at the same place for 8 years.

=======================================
I got to the edge of sanity....then i fell off
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[mrdenny]

Moving from company to company is a good way to get a raise yet. Some companies do frown on this, but it's usually on the HR people that do. Everyone in IT knows that it's very common to just from company to company every few years. Me for a while there I was doing it every 6-18 months, but that's cause I had a couple of really bad jobs. Hopefully I'll be able to stay at this one for a while.

Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
MCTS (SQL 2005 / Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services 3.0: Configuration / Microsoft Office SharePoint Server 2007: Configuration)
MCITP Database Administrator (SQL 2005) / Database Developer (SQL 2005)

My Blog

 

[aalmeida]

The statistcs say that some one that just came out of college will change jobs an average 5 times in the fisrt 5 years out off college.
the reasons for that varies but two are rather important 1st find a position they can get confotble with and 2nd be able to increase salary only after these 5 first years people start to try staying longer on a assignment.
I see it 2 ways once you are done with college it's time to know the world and what you can make out of it, so don;t be afraid to move on with the economy we have had since the dot com meltdown and even before that employees realized it's not worth to plege one self to a company, and that thing that says that is more to work than just getting payed it's a non sense cause it's the getting payed that pay your bills and keep you moving.
Ask all thouse that have been layed off how do they buy milk for their children or how do they take them to the doctor.
Yes a boss is a boss anywhere and they are there to do the company's bid not your and so your coleges when the time comes to ask wh needs to go you need to know how to move on and the best time for you do that is on your own terms.

AL Almeida
Senior DBA

http://www.ajmedia.net/

"May all those that come behind us, find us faithfull"