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New building = new phone system = advice needed :) 5

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bzbee

IS-IT--Management
Mar 15, 2010
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Howdy,

My wife's medical practice is moving to a new building that is under construction. With the move, they're planning on scraping their existing digital phone system with a new one. At the new site, there will be a need to have around 25 handsets sharing 6 or so lines (right now they have 4 lines but are getting complaints from patients experiencing busy signals).

Our first decision to make: Hosted PBX or Premise PBX? Personally, I like the hosted pbx as it's one less piece of hardware for the practice to maintain/update (they're not tech folks and I don't want to be their support person..especially on phone matters). The drawback with hosted is that our ISPs (cable, DSL) are not especially reliable (DSL is better than cable but folks get mighty nervous imagining the phone system down).

If we go premise pbx, should we use TDM/Digital or IP based? One of the techs is suggesting that we go with an ESI digital system but I'm a little hesitant to go that route considering that it will require separate phone lines (unless we can run them over the planned Cat6 lines) and doesn't offer all the flexibility in moving/programming phones that office staff could be expected to handle. As far as needed features the digital system should meet the needs now but I wonder about flexibility/upgradability for the years to come). Also, a large majority of stuff selling today is IP based so I wonder if tdm is being weeded out (don't want to be the last person buying a betamax player :)

What kind of lines to use. At a former job, I had to support an Avaya IPO 500 that we had POTS lines connected to it. It worked but I always felt we were getting nickeled and dimed when trying to add additional POTS lines. Currently the office has 4lines but I think going to 8 would provide enough breathing room. We've had a vendor come out and pitch SIP trunks but that still relies on a reliable internet connection no? We should have fiber up in the area when we move to the area and I'm chomping at the bit to use that for networking and telecom needs. Any suggestions are greatly appreciated here as we want reliability without forking over a ton of moola to Ma Bell.

Well, that's all the questions that we have now. I can appreciate that different folks will have different answers that work perfectly for their environment but would like to see what logic folks use for their decision to go with x as opposed to y.

Thanks for the read and any advice you can dole out.

Have a great day!

chris
 
My head hurts from all the spelling and grammar errors.
I agree with LKEErie and jsaad. Telephones are their lifeline (literally). Get a tried and true system and skip the BS. When your phones go down because of a problem in a datacenter, or your internet takes a crap, I don't think the patients will be too understanding.

jeff moss
 
Regarding reliability, is the scale from least to most like the following:
hosted pbx -> sip trunks with premise pbx -> POTS with premise pbx

I don't mind going with a TDM system but want to make sure that we have something that offers the flexibility for when we're piggy backing on a fiber connection and want to route phone traffic via sips instead of the local CO phone lines.

Again, thanks to everyone with the myriad of ideas. Like one of my teachers said, "there's always more than one way to skin a catfish"

Have a great day!

chris
 
Let's see. My eye doctor customer, Panasonic TDA-50 instaleed about 6 years ago, no down time, ever. CICS installed in my old doctor's office, I think it's about 15-18 years with down time measured in minutes. The most problems we have is when the APC unit starts flashing lights because the batteries need to be replaced. It doesn't require a "reboot" or "software upgrade" every so often and it doesn't have "licenses" to keep it working.

Hosted, agree to disagree, and quit talking about the "tin on the wall" before I start talking about "cloud promiseware". Half the SMB's don't need much more than 2 tin cans and a string. You might like to sell someone bells and whistles, but the truth is it's just sizzle to someone who could care less. Geeze, even CID is only "our" tool, the average retailer doesn't need it.


LkEErie

 
A hosted PBX is still a tin, just a tin in a rack in a far off place, its just the means of connecting to it thats different.

Avaya's IP1000 has been released, its a server based IP Office capable of running up to 1000 users, and will utilise your IP500 hardware as a gate way for trunks and TDM phones.

The IP1000 is also ripe for hosting in a data centre, and soon will be VM compatible, with voice mail and call reporting all running in the same box, all in the cloud. Heck, even an IP500 now will be OK to do it with their new remote worker features. IP Office with SIP trunks in one end, h323 or SIP endpoints out the other.

ACSS - SME
General Geek



1832163.png
 
right, i dont think most of these hosted guys know exactly how everything works yet... just sales guys looking to sell

every customer i have has there internet go down at least a few times a year..

now tell me how many have their copper trunks go down in that same span

that is tried and true and hosted is not there yet, and by the time it is there people will be buying the avaya and toshiba systems that are hosted in data centers, not all of these no name hosted brands with half the features and twice the bugs :)

 
OP (my emphasis) said:
The drawback with hosted is that our ISPs (cable, DSL) are not especially reliable (DSL is better than cable but folks get mighty nervous imagining the phone system down).


OP has clearly stated that reliability is a key requirement and decided that they cannot achieve that reliability using their IP connectivity

@Hostedtelephone (but little hope of an answer)

How do suggest that your hosted solution can meet this requirement, in a cost effective manner?

The OP has clearly researched SIP trunks and discounted them (correctly IMO) on based on the connection stability issue - hosted simply does not stack up!

My personal preference would be IP office, but I've always had misgivings about the IPO and analogue lines. Maybe a decent panansonice would be a good choice, but hosted never!



Take Care

Matt
I have always wished that my computer would be as easy to use as my telephone.
My wish has come true. I no longer know how to use my telephone.
 
and i also love the "hosted" guy saying that his system is more reliable and less expensive and more features

we sell hosted and premise base at my company and let me argue all 3

More Reliable?

see my above post... you lose internet you lose everything

Less expensive?

yes maybe per month by a few pennies... Everytime we set up someone with a lease for a phone system with avaya toshiba and a hosted product (we propose all 3)

every time the hosted comes in just slightly cheaper per month (maybe 100 $), but here is the kicker, they pay off the avaya or the toshiba in 3-4 years, you NEVER stop paying for the hosted. If you only plan on having the system 3-4 years ok, but tell me anyone on the planet that only keeps a system for 3-4 years. You should get 10 years easy.

PLUS they usually dont include the phones or the setup fee so add that in and hosted ends up costing MUCH MUCH MORE

and the last more features? I have been throug at least 5 hosted solutions and countless of these other variations of freepbx, and not one of them has even 65% of the features of avaya or toshiba.


so please tell me again "hosted" guy how your product is better

 
i am a HUGE nortel guy

in fact we still install bcms to this day, mostly t series phones (which we also install with IPOS)

i love the 11xx series and when the customer is willing to pay for them we install them

they are very nice looking phones, something avaya does not really have much of a selection from
 
Hi Phoneguy610, does your name come from the Feature 610 Paging?

GordonKapes is the name of a complicated paging module I once learned how to install....it was a nightmare but I got it working :)

Do you have a website for your company? I'd sure love to share my Nortel story with you.

Joe

Joseph Sus-Nortel Installer/Programmer
 
Oh and back to the main point,

Glad to hear I am not the only one who is a Nortel fan!

Yes the Nortel IP Phones are probably the best on the Market.....Cisco is popular, but the phones do not seem to have the same quality as the 11xx sets.

There are quite some awesome deals on the Nortel phones that are "like new" with warranties from reputable sources.

So for this person who started the original topic above, with a new building, I'd highly suggest an Avaya CS1000 with 11xx phones, BCM with IP phones, Pure SIP with the Nortel SIP phones, or a Emetrotel UCx with the 11xx phones.

Joseph Sus-Nortel Installer/Programmer
 
Hey All,

*Laugh* This thread has gone on an epic journey. I'm still looking into the suggestion of buying a new KSU and re-using existing handsets (may not work considering the age on the system but it'd be good to know). If the support guy is more comfortable with TDM systems and it's not too much of a cost difference in pulling the Cat 3 (vs planned Cat6a for data) then I may follow his lead (especially if it'll be a free install and he'll be supporting it).

There's not a way to close the thread (at least that I can see) and I still check it once someone posts to it. Again, thank you everyone for sharing your wisdom in this matter.

Have a great day!

chris
 
I actually don't know (should have took a look while I was at the meeting). I'll see if I can find out and post that info here.
 
So, I asked and was told it has an NEC on it. Well, that narrows it down some (and the fact that I know the phone system is 5+ years old).
 
Oh man. I apologize for everyone here. Who knew that you didn't have your original problem solved before the flames and rants started? Is your NEC monster an SV8100? There should be a part number on a tag on the bottom of the phone. Please post it and we'll really go to work. Also, what country are you in?

LkEErie
 
I guess my bad use of the grammar and the like does imply that I'm not from the US but I'm actually in NC. Unfortunately, I'm not on site but asked a staff member to take a photo of the sticker on the back.
 
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