Network problem; help a young man from being falsely accused. 3

[rexburg]

I have a problem that I need an answer to before Tuesday the 14th. My nephew is in his first year of high school and has been accused of downloading inappropriate material on one of the computers in his Photoshop class. I realize that boys will be boys, but this kid is way to afraid of getting into trouble, I mean he is 15 and still his walls are covered with pokemon posters.
The proof that they have is Internet Explorer history file; as far as I know they its only one page, it was a search on a Japanese google image page. I have been to this page and there are only three nude images on it. My question is, could some other student access the Internet via the room network? And should all the information be on the server? I would really appreciate and theories on this matter, this is a really good kid and I don’t wont to see him pay for something he did not do. I am quite computer literate but networks and servers are not my forte. I have a meeting with his teachers and the computer tech that is accusing him; so any ammo I could get would be greatly appreciated. I am basically looking for defense material to keep him from being suspended.
One last question, should everything that was viewed on his machine via the internet be on the school server?

Thanks,
Rex
rex@ntldesign.com

 

[bcastner]

If they have a content monitor, they can record every instance of activity by the workstations up to and including keystrokes, depending on the software used. This would include the Internet History of sites visited, and downloads.

I think you will find little technical or other sympathy trying to claim that under remote control another student was controlling IE during the session.

The difficulty for you is that you do not know what they were logging. To visit a page that included nudes or even explicit sexual acts among harmless material seems a fairly weak argument to make. There are many sites of mixed content, as there are museums. But I suspect they have a stronger case to make from their logs.

It would be best to honestly admit to downloading inappropriate material, offer as a weak but plausible defense it was inexperience with the school code and immaturity, and promise to sin no more.

Any vigorous defense on your part is likely to make matters worse. The technical odds are against you. I suspect they have complete logs.

 

[chiph]

The other thing to ask was what the search term used on the Google page was. Often the most innocent search will take you to an inappropiate site, and you can't find this out until you've actually visited it. Or the Google cache is out of date -- it was a clean site when it was spidered, but was changed by the site's owner afterwards.

Another question to ask is what was the Google "Safe Search" option set at? It's stored in a cookie on the machine, and you have to explicitly set it to "Don't filter my results". Granted, it's not perfect, but it's pretty good.

Chip H.


If you want to get the best response to a question, please check out FAQ222-2244 first

 

[lullysing]

And anyone else using the computer before your nephew ( or when he's been to the bathroom or whatnot) would have left that file on in there.

Ask them for specific time and date of access, and check if it's even possible your nephew was in the classroom at that time. If they cannot give you any specifics, then it means they are probably on a witch hunt of some kind.


_____________________________
when someone asks for your username and password, and much *clickely clickely* is happening in the background, know enough that you should be worried.

 

[dogbert2]

I agree, if multiple people have access to this computer, it's going to be hard to prove anything, not to mention, if the staff didn't make any effort to properly preserve evidence (MD5 or SHA1 checksums), along with use of a digital timestamping service (digital notary), then they have little if no chance prevailing legally.

Courts of law are very very skeptical of stuff that is simply presented as 'evidence' unless absolute proof can be offered that it wasn't tampered with in some way, shape, or form (a good defense lawyer can usually find these types of holes in allegations, etc).

p.s. - if more than ONE person had potential access to the system in question, then the school has a much tougher problem on it's hands, due to the fact that multiple people could have done the dirty deed.

 

[mattKnight]

dogbert2,

I suspect, that the school will not have as high as test of proof as a court of law though. AIUI, this is an internal disciplinary issue, for breach of AUP, rather than a, for example, mass distribution of illegal material.

Rexburg

I suggest that you approach the school and find out exactly what evidence they have. Seeking answers to the following,

What sort of material was downloaded?
Could if have been downloaded innocently?
Are the school sure who *exactly* carried out the download?

It is also worth asking your nephew, if he did download it!


With this information in mind, I would suggest that a little bit of contrition, as previously suggested, would be a far more productive method that outright denial.

Hope this helps


Take Care

Matt
If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.

 

[dogbert2]

I understand the AUP issue, but the same standard of proof MUST apply, otherwise, what is to prevent someone else from doing the deed, and a innocent person getting screwed over in the process?

I wouldn't accept someone offering up some logs as absolute proof of wrong doing, but it would be a starting point for an investigation (if the matter has the potential to wind up in court (civil or criminal), the accusing party better have followed all the rules for preservation of evidence, otherwise, they'll lose in court). I've seen this happen in civil cases, where i've been a expert witness.

 

[Chance1234]

I would turn this around, and ask what kind of school are you running where minors can easily access pornography on your systems ? surely it is the schools responsibility if they are allowing their pupils to access the internet to ensure that they have proper content and filtering in place. surely this is a demonstration of the schools IT weakness.



Filmmaker, gentlemen and proffesional drinker

http://public.fotki.com/chance1234/

 

[BakeMan]

I agree with Chance1234,

If you are sure that your nephew is innocent, then I would pursue an aggressive of a stance as possible. It has been my experience that, unlike what bcastner has stated, that an adamant defense is the best defense. In my experiences (especially with low level authority figures like a school board) that they tend to believe they are right until absolutely proven wrong and even then will continue to pursue the course of action that they have already set in place. They intend to suspend your nephew and have already begun the process. The meeting with you is just a courtesy. This is however your only chance to save your nephew from the humiliation of being falsely accused. Something I unfortunately am all to familiar with. You must first enter the meeting with questions. As stated above, find out what they have against you. Second, you must begin to shoot down all of there evidence. Even if you are completely successful with this they will not stop the suspension. This, in their mind, is already a done deal. This will however give you the credibility to begin to threaten. This unfortunately is you only hope. You must make them believe that suspending you nephew is not only wrong but could possible cost one of them their job. I don't mean to sound so negative about this but like I said I do have some experience in dealing with these types of situations. Don't let yourself get fooled by there job. You think they are there to do the right thing and help out those who have been wronged, but they are not. It looks better for them to wrongly persecute a few to protect the many and believe me they will do so adamantly. Once again, if you are convinced your nephew is innocent, if and, in my opinion, when they suspend him, SUE THERE BACKSIDES OFF. If you have the money for a good lawyer there is no better feeling than making them explain themselves to a judge. This is not a criminal matter but you can certainly make a strong case that this being on your nephews record will make a difference in the university he can enroll in and the education he will receive in the future and therefore the amount of money he will make in his lifetime. A $50,000 lawsuit will most likely have him re-instated and his record expunged.

Good luck with this and let us all know how it turns out.

BAKEMAN

 

[CajunCenturion]

Just keep in mind that if you take an aggressive posture against the school, you may put the school on the defensive, which leads to an adversarial relationship. I would generally choose that course of action as a last resort, as the repurcussions of forging an adversarial relationship with the school could extend well beyond this one incident.

But it is a viable option, as are other options presented in the discussion, but I don't think we have enough facts at our disposal to offer any recommendations as to what might be the best course of action in this case.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[BakeMan]

CajunCenturion,

I surely respect you opinion and do not want to contradict you. Granted there are very few facts stated here to make an informed decision. I am simply trying to express the gravity of the situation as I see it through my own experiences. I believe that the school board has already made up its mind as to what will happen and moving in with a weak or non-aggressive stance will only encourage them to continue with their railroad attempt on the weak. But, I will concede to you that I may be (okay am) biased by my own experiences and may be making a mountain out of a mole hill.

BAKEMAN

 

[CajunCenturion]

On the other hand, BakeMan, you may very well be correct.

In any event, you can always use the civil court system in the appeal process, and now you've got real damages for which to seek compensation.

Good Luck
--------------
As a circle of light increases so does the circumference of darkness around it. - Albert Einstein

 

[SF18C]

rexburg,

I think the most important thing is to get a very honest and straight forward answer from your nephew. Hey, I was 15 once (and Pokémon or not) boys are interested in those types of things!!! But if that true heart-to-heart, man-to-man talk revels that he did not do this, then by all means, damn the torpedo's, fight for what's right, stand true to your principles and (as always) prepare for the worse. If your nephew did do this then he needs to take his lumps like a man he is preparing to be. Either way this can be (and should be) a valuable lesson for your nephew to learn about how society deals with problems, how the "authorities" may not always be right and how proof may not match the deed. The schools "proof" may be pretty weak, and you may be able to shoot their theory full of holes, but to me someone who is guilty and gets off on a technicality is still guilty.

I agree with Chance1234 and BakeMan stand a hard line and fight for the wrongly accused...De Oppresso Liber!!!!
No matter what happens, do let your nephew get screwed...either for something he did not do, or for something he did do and can get away with!!!

SF18C
CCNA, MCSE, A+, N+ & HPCC

"Tis better to die on your feet than live on your knees!"

 

[byteofram]

Rexburg,
You've gotten some good responses here. I have been involved in something similar where I had to put up the "good fight" so to speak. Here are some tips:
a. Double check with your nephew. Ask if inappropriate pictures came up on the screen at any time. Tell him that stuff happens during searches, and that's different than looking specifically for porn. Basically make sure he understands there's wrong surfing at school and accidental popups.
b. You can take ideas and questions into the meeting, but the first meeting should be a fact finding mission for the most part. Find out what kind of records they have. They are probably going to try and make you believe they have concrete proof, but chances are they don't.
c. Like someone else said, push back on them why filters aren't in place. No school or library, etc should be without a porn filter.
d. How do they know it was your nephew? Cached items could be from a previous user or one after.
If the school's network is done properly, then they should be able to show you conclusive proof what he was searching on, what came up, dates, time, etc...if not they are going to try and bluff those things. Don't let them. Once you have more info, you are free to email me for more information: byteofram@yahoo.com

 

[rexburg]

Hi Everyone

I just wanted to thank everyone for all the input and advice. I have a meeting with the principle on Wednesday and I will let you all know the out come. I also neglected to mention that the teacher showed my nephew the printout of the google page; it contained three images of nude women. The word that was searched on google was skank. I did the same Japanese search and out of 160 hits I only got 4 nude images, most of the rest were of a rock group. Once again, thanks, you all have been a great help.
Rexburg

 

[harebrain]

SF18C said:

No matter what happens, do let your nephew get screwed...

Yeah, that'll make him lose interest in pictures!

 

[SF18C]

Ahhh that needed to say "...do NOT let your nephew get screwed..."

Needed more coffee then!!


SF18C
CCNA, MCSE, A+, N+ & HPCC

"Tis better to die on your feet than live on your knees!"

 

[craigsboyd]

I could be wrong, but it appears to me that it was not an issue of going to or searching for the site with the inappropriate content but more a matter of the downloading of said inappropriate images. I would be suprised if the school is talking about something they found in the temp internet cache on the computer. Sounds more like the imagees were downloaded onto the computer somewhere. Like I said, I could be wrong. However, with this aassumption in mind, and assuming that they have each of the students login to the computers in that photshop class I would say that it is going to be difficult to defend. (Now I say difficult, certainly not impossible.)

The problem will probably be that the images were saved while you nephew was logged in and that means that the files will be marked with him as the owner. Hard to refute. I would be suprised if the school says "Oh ok, our bad, Sorry!" when and if you decide to throw the content filter issue in their face, but it might be good to mention it in passing such as "I am really disturbed by this, is there any kind of filtering thingy you could put on these computers to keep kids from seeing this type of stuff?". This will get them to thinking a little about not being perfect themselves, however I would be shocked if they decided to give your nephew a pass because their filtering technology didn't work. There isn't a filter made yet that is 100% foolproof.

So what can you do? Sit back, relax, and put things into perspective. The kid is 15, the suspension or punishment isn't going to be for life. Tell him "You know life isn't fair sometimes. But it will all work out, you'll see. Now how about we go see that new movie you've been talking about?" Put your hand on his head, give his hair a tussle, let him know that everything is going to be ok, and go to the movies.

Slighthaze = NULL

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An excellent guide to getting a fast and accurate response to your questions in this forum.[/li][/ul]

 

[Chance1234]

how can searching for skank be defined as downloading porn ?
anyway eagerly awaiting the outcome!

Filmmaker, gentlemen and proffesional drinker

http://public.fotki.com/chance1234/

 

[harebrain]

Let's recap the facts:

1. My nephew is in his first year of high school and has been accused of downloading inappropriate material on one of the computers in his Photoshop class.

2. The proof that they have is Internet Explorer history file; as far as I know they its only one page, it was a search on a Japanese google image page.

3. My question is, could some other student access the Internet via the room network?

(For the sake of brevity, let's say that "inappropriate material" means "porn." It could be hate speech, whatever, we'll call it "porn.&quot

If all the proof they have is the IE history, this is a pretty weak case. They don't have proof that he downloaded porn, they have proof that someone visited an Internet site that contained porn. These are very different activities. The latter is too, too easy to do accidentally: should that be a punishable offense? And who should be punished, the kid involved in the accident, or the computer providers who failed to protect him?

Notice the emphasis on "someone." Forget someone planting the evidence by accessing his computer over the network, it's far more likely that it was done directly. Teenagers don't understand physical security. Maybe your nephew was logged in and let his neighbor control the mouse for a minute to "show him something cool." Maybe your nephew went to the bathroom without logging out and someone did the deed while he was gone. There are all kinds of ways for this to occur in a classroom atmosphere without your nephew being the culprit. As I said, IE history is weak evidence.

Can your nephew read Japanese? If not, how could he deliberately search for Japanese porn, and succeed at it by visiting exactly one page?

So, your defense is:

1. Your nephew didn't do it and they can't prove that he did.

2. If he did do it, it was an accident.

3. If he did it accidentally, they're at fault for not protecting him. (BTW, is it possible the school could lose state or federal funds for this type of failure? That would be a great stink to raise.)