Needed expert opinions on MS Access Forms and Web Pages 1

[dataplayer]

I am using a few forms of .asp type made by DreamWeaver. I myself think it might be a waste to create these .asp pages and link with my Access tables. Those pages cost me thousands of bucks to be built by professionals since I myself are not good at DreamWeaver. These pros keep saying Access Web Page is lousy, blah, blah. I have not used Access Web Page before, but kept thinking this might be a big money saving way to go. I can easily build forms and queries in Access and convert them to Web pages in no time, which save big money for me. But the challege is the web server must easily support such pages, or I have to come up with my own server. Could any one give me some clues about

1. how Access Web Page work (excellent, good, poor, or what),

2. who can host such pages

3. if I need to have my own server, what is the major traps in handling this kind of web pages.

Thanks.

Frank

 

[alsoknownas]

"I myself think it might be a waste to create these .asp pages and link with my Access tables. "

Your above statement tells me that you have no idea nor have you researched how productive .asp pages cam be. (You sure you're a programmer?)
In a nutshell - The asp concept: faq333-3615



If you're looking for Static (boring) webpages by all means, go with access if that's your expertise.

But, if you want a more productive way of displaying your data and allowing you clients to access this data, make changes, dynamically send emails when changes are made, create reports dynamically in different formats, be inter-active on the fly, add security to each page if you have to, have reports change dinamically based on how data is updated, etc....

you may want to Learn/Read/Educate yourself on what .asp is/does before making statements as mentioned above...

[/tt]

 

[dataplayer]

I know how powerful .asp is. But the tasks I need is very simple. I had just two application forms built by pros using Dreamweaver that cost me over three thousand dollors and they do not look any better than what I can produce from Access Form. Not matter how powerful .asp is, I can't effort to do much with the price pros charged me. On the other hand, I am too busy to do these programmings myself.

You probably misunderstood me. I am not making any statement. I am seeking for a money saving way for my situation. Your comments on .asp is completely right, but that is not what my questions ask. Thanks for the comments anyway.

 

[alsoknownas]

perhaps if you layout what you're trying to do one can help you with the logic and or code

[/tt]

 

[harrymossman]

I had just two application forms built by pros using Dreamweaver that cost me over three thousand dollors and they do not look any better than what I can produce from Access Form.

Sounds like highway robbery to me. Maybe you could find an honest designer. ;-)

 

[viol8ion]

Dataplayer,

I am still not clear on what you are asking. Are you trying to create a form that will mail or post info? If so, formmail.asp, which is similar to Matt's Formmail is easy to implement and free.

http://www.brainjar.com/asp/formmail/

has info on it.

Maybe this is not what you are asking, but if it is, it sure beats $3000 for a simple web form.

When in doubt, deny all terms and defnitions.

http://www.wuli.com

 

[dataplayer]

I need to create forms that collect data into my rear-end database. I used Formmail couple of years ago that send me a text file with the collected data. But there is too much cut-and-paste work to do after the data is received. Probably it is the same type like Brian Jar's site.


Frank

 

[viol8ion]

You will probably run into difficulty finding someone that will support Access Web Page on the back end, and the costs will outweigh any costs in having someone help you use ASP, which is widely supported. Just my opinion.

When in doubt, deny all terms and defnitions.

http://www.wuli.com

 

[dataplayer]

I see. This is something I like to know also. Thanks.

Frank

 

[Duplicity]

More web hosts support PHP/MySQL which is also easier to learn than ASP. I am not going to argue the case for or against ASP since it is indeed a seriously powerful option and I do use it. It has to be said though that I normally go for a PHP solution in most cases, if for no other reason than the majority of web hosts don't charge extra for it and most of my clients requirements can be easily met by using it.

You could deliver your form data either to email or to email combined with a database (MySQL/flat file etc).

There would be nothing stopping you from periodically downloading a flat file database, say in CSV format, just as an example, and simply append query the results into your Access database. This process can be largely automated using Access web queries.

Unless you are using the Access database online as a data source to display information you don't need to use ASP and you don't need to use an Access Dbase to collect form input, although you can if you want to.

Look at web hosts that offer Windows IIS hosting with Access MDE installed and Access database support. It's comparatively expensive for such hosting, and for good reason.

ASP is excellent in the right circumstances but without further information from you it would be foolish of me to suggest that one solution above another is appropriate.

It never ceases to amaze me how much some web designers charge and how much some clients will pay (sigh).

Try and detail what it is you want your forms to do. If they are to gather data for your later use on a client database on your own PC you don't need to use ASP, although you could and there's nothing to stop you if you want to.

No matter whether the form data is sent to you via email or dumped into a database (MySQL, flat file or Access) you can import it into a client side database readily enough. In the case of email, if you use Outlook you can code your own automated process set up with a message rule so your form return triggers an event that runs an import process into Access.

There are so many possible options here it's largely academic without more information from you.

Two final points for you:

1. If your only grumble about your current ASP pages is their look, change it. You can format the look of an ASP page the same as you would with any other web page. Just don't rename any of the actual form components or alter the underlying ASP code. The visual side of things though, is entirely up to you so you have no grounds to moan there.

2. If you want a quick and easy method of generating working ASP to Access pages and you don't have a large bugdet, get your hands on a copy of FrontPage (any version after and including 2000) and spend some time learning it. FrontPage has a lot of built in database interface and results wizards and you can set up your forms to dump into an Access database (FrontPage creates it for you in a protected folder, sets up the connection to it and locks it down pretty well) and if you apply certain requisites to your forms and save them as ASP documents you're off, running straight out of the blocks.

The bad news is that FrontPage generated ASP hosting costs even more in most cases than standard ASP hosting but despite what anyone may tell you to the contrary you can generate entire ASP sites with FrontPage if you spend the time to learn it. The latest version (2003) has more dynamic site options than you can shake a stick at and those who rubbish it as a program do so based largely on hearsay and not on significant experience.

Food for thought ?

Give us some specifics to work on and who knows, you may even get some useful help...

Regards and good luck.

 

[dataplayer]

I am more a database designer and user than a web designer. My database has a dozen tables and a few queries. Basically, I need to collect application data, orders, set up FAQ's, etc from the web. In order to collect data from the web, I need to pay people a lot of money to write ASP files. And two small projects already cost me tons of money. The reason for my thinking about other options is that I don't know ASP and DreamWeaver. In the mean time, I can't afford the same programmer anymore. My options are 1. learn asp myself (which is too slow for me), or 2. finding other way of creating such pages myself, 3. looking for some one much more affordable to write asp pages.

Your answer provide a lot of information for me. I need to do a lot of homework following your suggestions. I really appreciate your time and knowlodge.

Frank

 

[Duplicity]

OK, with respect, "a dozen tables and a few queries" does not constitute serious rocket science unless your tables each have millions of fields and your queries are seriously convoluted.

Let's try and break this down and see if we can't make a big thing into a more manageable series of little things. I've always felt that the big things are made up of little things, so if you get the component parts right everything else just kind of clicks.

Can you be a bit more specific without breaking any national secrets on what it is you want to do ?

You said "Basically, I need to collect application data, orders, set up FAQ's, etc from the web."

If we take that as:

1. Collect application data (I need to know what that means in your particular situation)

2. Collect orders.

3. Set up FAQ's

4. etc...

What I'd say is that you have four (or possibly more) very individual processes going on there. Your FAQ's need not have any direct database involvement unless you need it to. I often prep a series of FAQ's as nothing more than a two window web page with a series of jump links down the left side. Each hyperlink jumps to the target subject or FAQ and beside that FAQ is a jump link ^^back to top^^.

Serving FAQ's from a database is sometimes using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. A lot of program Help files are little more than an indexed series of FAQ's compiled into a help document, but they start out as a plain and simple series of HTML pages. Unless the FAQ's section becomes so large and unwieldly it is impractical in plain vanilla HTML there are alternatives to database involvement which effectively removes your requirement for ASP or any other dynamic page for this element. I'm not guaranteeing that you can get away without ASP, I'm merely saying that it may not be necessary and so far, you haven't given enough of the game away for me or anyone else to advise properly.

There's an open source PHP/MySQL FAQ generator at this link:

http://pifaq.sourceforge.net/

and there are more little programs out there to help you than you can shake a stick at for little outlay

http://www.faqtool.com/

http://ubn-control.hypermart.net/caf/faq.htm

Now,
collecting orders is the tricky bit. The easy option is to go without secure order processing for card transactions and have your order forms generate email replies. This is how it works:

Customer selects quatities of goods, fills in personal details or account information if they have an account with you and clicks the submit button. A couple of seconds later your inbox has an order for you. You reply to their order request with a confirmation letter detailing the amount due (from a template of course) and await payment. Client calls and pays through whatever means are necessary/desirable. You deliever the goods. Job done.

The more complicated methods involve a database of products that offers stock control and order processing. You have to watch which payment providor you deal with because some of them will keep on selling your items even if you have nothing left in stock, while others will offer you a stock management system with your subscription to their service.

The inbetween method is to code up a form that calculates value of product by quantity ordered then totals all items picked. You can get the form to add sales tax, offer discounts if a minimum amount is reached and so on. And you don't need an underlying database of products to do this. You can use ASP, PHP, JavaScript, CGI/Perl and one or two others for this approach, and the final order is emailed or printed off and mailed to you for processing.

Either way, it's as hard as you want to make it and while forms can be an issue to some people I certainly don't mind lending a hand if you supply some details of what it is you want to be aboe to do.

So, out of your "collect application data, orders, set up FAQ's, etc" the only real problems as I see them are 'collect application data' and that rather ambiguous etc you tagged onto the end.

More information required methinks. If the project is of a sensitive nature say so and we'll do go to alternative communication.

Good luck with it.