Need Advice

[evilgoat]

Im looking into "upgrading" my network from peer to peer. I recently went out and purchased a intel xeon dual core 2.8ghz (2 processors) 8gb ram - 5x160gb hd's server. I am lost/confused as to what OS to get. We are a small business with about 5 employees. The things we would need for the server to do:

1. file/printer sharing
2. database for our files as well as have an ftp for our clients to log in and download their test data
3. we use Goldmine crm software so have that loaded on the server. So an email/exchange server?
4. we also use quickbooks for our accounting - and need it to where we have our laptops and we sign on the server via the internet and use quickbooks or goldmine on our laptops but it gets the database from the server
5. remote login (same as above) i suppose.

I think thats all the basic stuff. We dont have thousands to invest and nor do we have an IT department.

I was comparing windows 2003 standard vs. windows small business 2003 premium. I like the sbs 2003 premium because they say its more user friendly, but would this be sufficient for what i need to do?

Thanks

 

[evilgoat]

Forgot to mention - Would it be a VPN i would need to set up to use my laptop and the software on it but access the data via the VPN thats on the server?

 

[mofusjtf]

You say you don't have thousands to waste yet you purchased your hardware before evaluating OS choices and the system requirements and/or limitations of those OS's.

Here is my 2 cents

SBS 2003 is a great product but has its limitations. Premium edition means you run exchange, SQL, ISA (if you install it) and Windows DC roles all on the same box along with your File/Print sharing, FTP, etc. This is a lot of demand on one server. It works but your biggest problem is you will be wasting 4GB of RAM since SBS 2k3 onlly supports 4GB max. But again it is the most cost effective at this time for a small office like yours.

You might want to look at SBS 2k8 Premium with Hyper V. It is designed as a two server setup.

I would use a Hardware firewall with VPN capability instead of the SBS firewall. ISA is an excellent firewall but you put your server on the perimiter of the network when using it in an SBS 2k3 install. Cisco makes a good appliance in the ASA.

For remote access to programs like QB & Goldmine using them over the Internet is not viable. Your best bet is to RDP to a desktop(s) or a terminal server.

Hope this helps.

 

[LWComputingMVP]

I generally agree with mofusjtf - one other thing I'll add, in order to implement a domain (which SBS requires) you will really need to have all client computers using Professional or Business Versions of Windows (XP Pro, 2000 Pro, Vista Business/Ultimate).

Also, while I would recommend SBS as it contains many features that standard server does not, it's also a bit more finicky about setup and management. While in theory, Microsoft wants you to believe that just about anyone can setup an SBS server, my recommendation is to HIRE a consultant to do it.

It always seems cheaper to do it yourself until you realize that while you're trying to figure it out, you cannot be doing whatever it is you do to make money... so if you could be making $2000 for the business during the time it takes for a consultant you have to spend $1000 on it to set it up, what makes more sense? (Any a consultant will probably charge more than that... still, get it done right the first time and your productivity should improve and the chances of costly problems later are reduced.

-Lee

Those who ask why, learn

http://www.lwcomputing.com

 

[wahnula]

I agree with the two posters above, and especially with Lee's point about it costing the company money for a non-pro to do the setup. In my case, it was more about the opportunity to learn and my thorough enjoyment of fiddling with tech that made me want to do the load & deployment, not the subject of lost income or company time.

In my case I even built the server (sicko, right?) which took up my vacation week but loading the OS was rather painless...deploying it was different. I seriously debated getting a pro to help with the setup, and vowed to call one in if I could not get it right the first day.

It went relatively smoothly, although it was only a basic fileserver upgraded from NT 4.0, and no external Exchange mail (yet), no SQL, and it was a small office with 8 users. I managed to import the public folder (calendar) and the Company file into the SBS box, and learned quite a bit, most notably to USE THE WIZARDS when setting up functions. I would do it again, but if you don't have a lot of patience and a proclivity for all things geeky then I would recommend an outside tech be brought in either in an assistant or admin capacity.

I love to learn and as long as it doesn't get over my head (which SBS did not)...then bring it on. I will say that buying the hardware without a clue as to what was going to run on it might not have been the proper sequence of events and may indicate that you're not quite ready to take this on yourself.

Tony

Users helping Users...

 

[ShackDaddy]

FWIW, SBS 2008 is even more wizarded than SBS 2003, and the setup wizards even include automatically registering a domain name with a major registrar and then configuring the DNS and MX records for you there. You don't really have the option for that OS unless you bought 64-bit hardware.


Dave Shackelford
Shackelford Consulting

 

[evilgoat]

Thanks for all the advice.

The hardware I picked up because it was very cheap ($750 CAD) the extra 4gig ram i can use somewhere else so its not an issue. As a starter server would the hardware be ok?

My little brother is doing computer science in school right now so he wants to take the opportunity to i guess learn by setting up a(an) server enviroment.

Just so you guys can guide me better based on the things we need out of a sever what would you recommend? Keep in mind the server will only be used by like max 5-6 people.

The ideal set up we want is not have any desktops in our office and we all use laptops.

So we have all the software set up on the laptops (quickbooks, goldmine, office etc) and when we're using quickbooks it gets its database from the server through the internet (if possible) say through a vpn?

also since sbs 2003 has an exchange server built rite in could we not set up goldmine on the server and have the user end loaded on our laptops.

We just want it set up so we can work from anywhere.

Thanks

 

[ShackDaddy]

I'll tell you right now, Goldmine performance over a VPN is horrible. At least it was a couple of years ago, when I last set it up for someone.

What you might want to do is set up a second server (real or virtual) in your office to be a terminal server and install Goldmine and Quickbooks on it, so that you could just run your apps over terminal sessions instead of having to pass all that database traffic over VPN.

SBS 2003 or SBS 2008 would both work well for you, but having some sort of second server for terminal services would really do a ton for performance of your applications.

Dave Shackelford
Shackelford Consulting

 

[LWComputingMVP]

I agree - VPN performance for actually accessing files is generally BAD. There's always exceptions, but your best bet - and the one I almost always recommend - is to use terminal services on a separate server. Not only does it help performance, it decreases the likelihood of corruption when the VPN connection drops unexpectedly - you just reconnect to the VPN, then the Terminal Server, and pick up right where you left off - nothing lost.

-Lee

Those who ask why, learn

http://www.lwcomputing.com

 

[ShackDaddy]

Or just use RWW and don't bother to ever set up VPN.

Dave Shackelford
Shackelford Consulting

 

[evilgoat]

Terminal Server? would I be able to use quickbooks/goldmine on my laptop and have my laptop access the data through the terminal server?

so im sure your aware now im a total noob at this! could someone give me an example of how to have it set up?

1 Server (intel xeon - 5x160gig hds)
partion one hd and have the os (sbs 2003 premium) on it then on the other partion have a virtual server set up? and load goldmine/quickbooks on that?

Then use the other hardrive for storing data and one to back up or whatever?

If you were in my position how would you have it set up?

Thanks

 

[evilgoat]

i was talking to someone and they were recommending to use "vmware" they said i could even have a linux/unix server set up and then have a virtual server with programs that are only for microsoft etc...

 

[evilgoat]

anyone?

 

[LWComputingMVP]

I'm not sure I follow... Yes, you can use virtualization... do you know linux? who's going to manage it?

-Lee

Those who ask why, learn

http://www.lwcomputing.com

 

[mofusjtf]

If you wait for SBS 2k8 and go with Premium you get Hyper V which is MS's competitiion for WMWare. You could then run you terminal server virtual.

But it sounds like you are getting in a little over your head. I would seriously consider getting an outside IT company to guide you through the process. It will be A LOT cheaper in the long run than having your little brother have a run at the setup. Set it up right the first time and you'll be much better off. Just have your little bro come in and assist the local IT company so he can get some hands on experience with the supervision of an IT Pro. His book knowledge, while advantageous, does not out weight the experience of an IT Pro.

And to second and third Dave and Lee, Goldmine and QB over a VPN has horrible performance. Terminal Server on a separte server (virtual or physical) is your best option. If you chose to ignore everything I said in this post, do not ignore this. Dave and Lee are extremely knowledgeable and a great source of knowledge. Take their advice seriously. They know what they are talking about.

 

[PaulGillespie]

Evilgoat, get a pro in. If you carry on i can see you getting into a lot of trouble and then your business could be down due to server failure and then where will you be? This is a business risk and not a good way to save on money.

If you really want to go it alone i would do something like this:

Configure your server to have 2 HDs in a raid 1 array for the operating system, then use the other 4 disks in a raid 10 for your data. Install SBS2003, there's more support and knowledge out there for it should you need help. Install a second server as a terminal server so that you can use your apps remotely. There's a really good book called small business server 2003 best practices by Harry Brelsford. Buy it, read it and run through a couple of installs of sbs in your free time until you're happy. Make sure you have a good backup plan as you may need it. I've been called into lots of sites like yours where the owner has gone it alone and in the end we've had to rebuild the server and set it up from scratch.