Need advice for reentering work force! 2

[lebcobol]

I would like to reenter the work force. I have a strong background in Mainframe Cobol batch programming and analysis. I have twelve years of experience overall. I gave up my careeer to raise my children 13 years ago.

My problem is I'm not sure what I should do to get prepared for reentry.

I would appreciate any suggestions.

Thanks

 

[Glenn9999]

Honestly, I'm not sure what to tell you. I had to give up my last job in mainframe COBOL programming because of my health and even that that is better now but I still haven't been able to find a job for about 3 years now.

But I will tell you what to study. The big thing right now seems to be web applications and web enablement (Think Java, think COBOL as a back-end, think Linux on the mainframe for that matter, in fact since 1992 I would say database processing has made a rise to prominence). With the way the industry is, a lot has changed since 1992 in the technology and management. I don't find very many available jobs to apply for, then when I do find them I find the competition is exceedingly fierce, 1) because Y2K caused a boom of programmer demand, which then dried up - WAY too many programmers, too few jobs. and 2) because most of the work now is offshored to places like India and China.

Even if we stick to COBOL, a lot has changed. There really isn't a steady standard (is there ever?), but the IBM standard has intrinsic functions, there's a uniform code base of object programs called the IBM language environment.

You don't mention your experience beyond "mainframe batch programming", so I really don't know much more I can tell you (do you know COBOL 85 constructs - I don't know if you've kept your skills up while you were working?). When I was working, I found it as useful (or more) to have experience in disciplines surrounding COBOL (database work, online work, understanding of web enablement) as I did knowing COBOL.

I'm sure the others will offer advice as well. If you want to talk more about what you can do to pick up some knowledge and practice, feel free to respond with some more details of where your knowledge is at the moment. We can point you in the right direction on things to study.

 

[lebcobol]

Glenn,

Thank you for your response I really appreciate the input. My last job was so much more that just programming an analysis. It's been a long time since I've had to explain what I did, but here goes.

My title was a D.P. Coordinator. The company I worked for did outpatient billing for 150 physicians, lab and xray with multiple off-sites. I did all of the computer user contact and coordination. We rented system time from the hospital which we also interfaced with for charges and patient info. I had to make sure everything ran smoothly. I did everything from fixing terminals to coordinating electricians for the offsite. Most of the skills I needed I learned from manuals or other DP. personnel from the hospital.

I loved pulling different entities together, operations, systems, users etc. Sometimes my job was everything but programming and analysis, other times it was all programming, debugging and testing to being on call 24/7. At times we had one or two contact programmers which I trained and scheduled.

My last year or so I consulted for the company using a dedicated line from my new home until I started my family. Right about the time I quit networking started to take off.

I haven't updated any of my skills since leaving. I'm hoping this site will give me some ideas.

 

[Glenn9999]

OK I don't know where you are technically. It sounds like with what you do that a lot of those skills are still useful (people skills rarely if ever expire). But the technical skills are probably more the concern for you right now...

In terms of COBOL itself, the first thing I would suggest is to look at the thread labeled "Holiday Processing" and then study that program. Then look at a thread on the third page called "Cross-Language Challenge" or some such thing at

http://www.tek-tips.com/viewthread.cfm?qid=1004890&page=3

. That should tell you if you're close to up-to-date on COBOL anyway.

Then, IBM has their manuals online.

Some suggestions:

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/IGY3PG00/CCONTENTS?DT=20011203125201

- Enterprise COBOL for z/OS and OS/390 V3R1 Programming Guide - generic guide and manual to COBOL

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/IGY3LR00/CCONTENTS?DT=20011206182158

- Enterprise_Cobol_Language_Reference

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/CEEA304/CCONTENTS?DT=19980120101603

- Language Environment Callable Services

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DFHWP300/CCONTENTS?DT=19990421162730

- CICS Application Programming Guide - relevant information about CICS in a general sense including basics about BMS

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DFHCAP49/CCONTENTS?DT=20001019112838

- CICS application programming reference - basically summaries of CICS and BMS macros.

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DFHJATK2/CCONTENTS?DT=20000118142112

- CICS and DB2 - Good reference for DB2 programming considerations in CICS programs. Chapter 10 is a very good read for application programmers - taking the time to read this one actually bailed me out of a couple of situations.

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DSNAPH11/CCONTENTS?DT=20010710165542

- DB2 application programming guide - the guideline manual for programming with DB2

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DSNSQ0F5/CCONTENTS?DT=19990720235406

- SQL reference - as described in the link. The DB2 catalog tables are also listed here.

http://publibz.boulder.ibm.com/cgi-bin/bookmgr_OS390/BOOKS/DSNMCH10/CCONTENTS?DT=20010216090552

- DB2 messages and codes - this is where you'll find the DB2 error codes and SQL return codes.

Hopefully this should be a good start. If you want instructional books you would be hard-pressed to do better than

http://www.murach.com

. If you have more questions or want some tips on getting some personal tools to work on some skills (or whatever), feel free to reply back.

 

[Tranman]

lebcobol,
Another thing to think about is PC COBOL. A lot of companies are still doing cobol (like banks emulating old mainframe interfaces), but they are using products like Microfocus NetExpress, which runs on Windows or Unix PCs.

My wife is in financial services, and has 3 cobol programmers working for her. Two of them also program in vb. Three guesses as to who will stay and who will go if there's a layoff.

The issue is that as time passes, and companies migrate away from cobol, you need to aquire other skills (database/vb/c/.net/java/whatever) in order to remain valuable.

I used to be a mainframe cobol guy, but back when, I saw the writing on the wall and bought a book called, "Visual Basic Programming for COBOL Programmers", and my own copy of VB. When I would write something at work, I'd go home and try to do the same thing in VB. This was a lot of work but eventually I got good at it. Sold my boss on the idea of trying some new development in VB. One thing led to another, and I'm the programming manager now. BTW, I still do maintenance cobol on our legacy code(using NetExpress), once in a while, because all of the people who didn't feel like they were capable of making the transition from mainframe, are gone... (the mainframe's gone, too.)

It's tough out there, but not impossible. You may have to take an entry level job, or less pay than you hoped for, but there are still some opportunities for good people. Remember that the investments you make in yourself are some of the best ones. Think about going back to school to update your skills and form some new contacts.

Good luck in your job search.

Tranman

 

[lebcobol]

Thank you Tranman,

I had recently called our local Community College to get advice on what skills I would need to go back into the computer field. Unfortunately, the counselor was not very helpful. Ergo, I tried finding something online to help and found this sight. I hope to go to the Community College and talk to the professors and get some ideas from them also.

 

[Glenn9999]

Yes, it's hard to come up with a real answer. From what I know of the community colleges and technical schools in my area, they are struggling with that answer. They went from not being able to provide enough space for the students with an interest in IT (I recall one school had over 40% of its enrollment in IT at one point), to not being able to place their graduates and scraping by for something else to do. A lot of them have had to scrape together health care stuff on a moment's notice to survive.

No one came up with any specific answers on how to succeed in the job market for IT because I'm not sure anyone has any specific answers. I know I'm struggling with even finding jobs to apply for much less getting interviews. It's a nasty time right now.

 

[webrabbit]

I think a college or university is a poor source for carrer counseling in this area. Thirty years ago the company I was working for hired a bunch of programmers right out of UCI. They had not learned anything about COBOL, FORTRAN, or PL/I. Their professors had nothing good to say about IBM and taught only Pascel. Back then IBM had 95% of the market. If you didn't want to work with IBM hardware/software, you had a hard time finding work.

 

[Tranman]

Glenn9999 has hit on the problem--one that has happened at least twice before in the 30 years that I've been involved in computers/IT.

Periodically, a shortage of IT people develops, and in response to industry demand, a whole bunch of college/tech school programs pop up. These programs turn out a flood of people, and inundate the market with job candidates. Unfortunately, many of these people come out of the educational system with training, but lacking "what it takes", to be good IT people. Then it takes years to weed out the ones that have no true desire to work in the industry, and by that time we have another "shortage". Then we go through the cycle again.

We're in one of those flooded markets right now, and if history is an indicator, it will be hard to land a decent IT job for the next 4 or 5 years. The only good thing about the market right now is that there are a bunch of boomers, like myself, who can and do maintain the 'old' stuff, and who are considering retirement in the next 4 or 5 years. When we start leaving in droves, COBOL/IT jobs will once again be easy pickings for a while.

Of course, we now have India/China/etc to cloud the issue.

I'm kind of glad this is the last 'down' cycle for me...

Tranman

 

[lebcobol]

I have really enjoyed reading everyones input. It's so awesome that all of you are so willing to share your experiences and opinions. The more I read though the more I'm wondering if I shouldn't go back to school for something different.

I've knew about jobs being out sourced to other countries, but I also remember the value of having someone on site to work with the users. Do any of you think there is employment in the coordinating aspect of systems and users?

That part was one of my favorites, being able to get what our company needed from people, especially when there were times they didn't want to.

All of you have given a lot to think about. Thank you all again.

 

[3gm]

As I watched the discussion develop, I was struck that you might consider a job as an IT Project Manager. I've worked for a large hospital for many years and they've made extensive use of Project Managers. Project Managers make things happen. They have to know a little bit about a lot of stuff so that IT projects stay on schedule and under budget (or at least as close as possible). None of our project managers has any special training that I'm aware of except perhaps that they all know how to use organizational tools like MS Project and MS Office really well. They also know how to kick butt and take names!

Good luck!

Glenn