NEC IVS2000

[tech73]

Hello.

We have a 10+ year old NEC IVS2000.

I was informed that the system reached "end of life" status last year and that the retrofit upgrade to the IPS 2000 system was just recently discontinued (and that the 4 port cards were also no longer being manufactured and supply would be limited and according to rep would be hard to come by parts by 2007)

Is it time to move to a new system?

We have a 250+ user setup and looking at options.

I had posted before looking for comparisons between NEC and Nortel, as my boss likes Nortel we are being driven in this direction, but trying to get some real answers from folks without either financial or administrative agenda in this decision.
(I prefer the NEC, but looking for good support to push this decision back toward NEC)

Any advice is appreciated.

Thanks.

 

[dontworx]

You still get an upgrade discount and can use your 4 port cards they will support them until July 2007.

 

[gbaughma]

... besides, if you switch with 250+ phones, you're not only looking at a new PBX, you're looking at 250+ NEW PHONES.

Whereas upgrading your 2000 would let you keep all your existing DTerm sets, for a good-sized bottom-line savings.

I know that 250 non-display, 8-button DTerms would cost roughly $40,000. Display or 16-buttons would be even more. I don't know for sure, but I would imagine that nortel phones have to be in the same price range......



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

 

[ctvi]

There are three reasons that seem to be pushing you toward the upgrade: 1. The IVS2000 has reached its end of life (NEC suggest 10 years for meantime for failure) 2. As a result, reliability is a concern as you are told that replacement parts will be scarce. 3. If you need to upgrade in a new switch, you would like to consider all options including a fork-lift replacement.

Here are my thoughts:

1. Even though the retrofit has been discontinued, you are still eligible to upgrade. When you upgrade, you will get a brand new CPU, New FP cards, New Cabinets and few other cards that cannot carry over i.e. the MCI card. Otherwise, the overwhelming investment of your 10 year old switch will carry over. I.e. all the station cards, T1 card, and all the phone sets. You will then have access to all the latest and greatest features NEC has to offer. Now you will breath another 10 years of life with an investment under 20k.

2. Replacement parts will not be scarce and you need not replace failed cards with 4 ports. With the upgrade, you can now take advantage of 8 port cards or new phones.

3. Now that you do not have to replace your entire investment, you can also rest assured that you will have access to most of the latest and greatest features on the marked with the new CPU etc.

Now your question for comparison between Nortel and NEC is less important. Nevertheless, the best way to find out is to interview the sales rep from each company. Also, in the meanwhile, try to broaden your horizon by interviewing others too.

 

[pave35]

I think one of the most important things is take a look at the NEC after 10 years. It still runs fine. We have customers that are not willing to depart from their older 2400 and 1400's because they are running just fine. And these are PBX's now installed 20 + years. And for most there is an available upgrade to the latest and greatest without replacing everything.
The greatest thing is that before any of this latest Telephony gizmo's were even thought of NEC was laying out an architecture that would support it.
Back in 1994 when I went to the 2000 IVS school I would never had thought that the very same system would 10 years later be able to utilize peer to peer voip applications with survivable remote shelves. Hell back then T1 with basic CCIS was the big thing.
What about Y2K? Many Nortel and Avaya customers were forced into extremely expensive upgrades (Resulting in many buying an NEC instead). NEC telephony equipment made after 1976 was Y2K compliant and any equipment that did require some sort of upgrade was done so free of charge from NEC.
The Nortel is a very good system but the company I feel has lost touch with the actual customer and they rely heavily on there existing base and marketing. How many customers can call an AGM or even the President of Nortel when they have an issue they feel strongly about? You can at NEC. It is still a very personable company and you can get that from any of the attendees at the NEC Users Group.
Anyway just my 2 cents worth on the company. The hardware speaks for itself. It has to because, as I have said before, the money for marketing at NEC seems to come from left overs in the R&D budget.

 

[gbaughma]

I'll vouch for NEC being personable. I was down at their Dallas center getting trained, and went out front to have a smoke.

I bumped into a couple of their R&D team, and of course, being the quiet, mousy, unobtrusive person that I am... <rofl>

Well, anyway, they were talking about the IPK. And I made mention of the SAT program; they asked "From an installer perspective, what can we do to get you to use SAT?" I said, "Well, frankly, I think SAT sucks, except for the wizards. The wizards are the only thing that SAT has going for it. The other issue is that to use SAT, you have to have an MIFM card to 'activate' the COM port to plug in SAT. From a sales perspective, it's hard to tell a customer 'Hey, for another $400 you can hook a laptop to your system to back it up'. It's gotten to the point that we carry a spare MIFM card with us. When I go out to install an IPK, I can program it in about 20 minutes from the phone, then I back it up with SAT so I have a backup of the customer's information. If you want us to use SAT, here's my suggestions. #1-Put the stupid 59 cent UART as a standard thing in the IPK to activate the serial port. It's a selling point. #2, make SAT easier to use for the simple programming tasks, but keep the wizards."

They were very interested in my feedback, and agreed that for the additional sale-ability of having the COM port active, the cost of adding the UART would be negligable.



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

 

[tech73]

Thanks to all for your responses.

This has been a tough road for an admitted phone novice, and very disappointed in the asnwers and sales tricks that I have been subject to so far.

Our current NEC vendor informed us that the upgrade was a bad move if we are looking for a solution that will last us (he decribed the upgrade as a 3 year solution before we would have to revisit), and they instead pushed a pure IP solution (that ended up being quite expensive and IP was really not needed in our situation)

An additional challenge is that the system we have seemed to have NEVER been updated since installation some 10 years back, no patches or incremental updates (are these updates usually covered if we are paying for a system service agreement?)

Makes me rather frustrated that the NEC vendor has shot himself in the foot, passed on what appears to be bad info and support and has lost our business as a result.

The full solution we are looking to implement is to install a new/upgrade system that is fully supported, replace 160+ non-display handsets with display sets (to accomodate caller ID which we also do not yet have in place), install capacity for T1 lines, and replace a 10 year old OS2 based voicemail system (that lacks backup functionality and is starting to freeze on occasion)

In addition, our CFO has a relationship with a Nortel installer and he has indicated that he is much more comfortable moving in this direction and has been a challenge to try to get him to reconsider the NEC option.

All of your info does help and is greatly appreciated.

 

[ctvi]

You write: "[the nec sales rep] pushed [us toward] a pure IP solution"

>>> Rediculous. Have you asked him what features would ip give you that you do not have now? Take a look at an article on our web site:

http://www.ctvi.com/voip111704.pdf

"Are these updates usually covered if we are paying for a system service agreement?"

>>> Most agreements do not cover upgrades. Each vendor has their own rules.

"Makes me rather frustrated that the NEC vendor has shot himself in the foot, passed on what appears to be bad info and support and has lost our business as a result."

>>> The sales rep does not represent the entire company. You can still apeal to a higher authority.

In addition, our CFO has a relationship with a Nortel installer and he has indicated that he is much more comfortable moving in this direction and has been a challenge to try to get him to reconsider the NEC option.

>>> It is not bad to persue a vendor based on a relationship. What is bad is that you are comparing and inferior switch to the IPS. The NEC-IPS is a PBX and the Nortel BCM is a key system or hybrid key system. You need to look at an inferior NEC switch to compare to the Nortel BCM i.e. the IPK or the IPKii. In addition, if you have given up on one vendor, you can always find another. Also, again, I fail to understand why the sales rep is the entire company?? Why can't you approach the sales manager or owner to obtain better responses?

 

[tech73]

The problem we now face is that we had trusted the NEC rep to give us the appropriate info, and I took him at his word that the NEC upgrade was a short term fix.

That is why we decided to pursue the Nortel option.

I have tried now in vain to put the brakes on this and have spoken with NEC direct, but my boss is commited to his decision and has no intent to change his mind.

I have attempted to appeal to him on several occasions now and still he will not budge.

I have been making myslef sick as I know now that this is the incorrect solution (seemed the best when based on the info that was inially made available to us) but not sure what else to do as I have been told outright that he has no intention of changing his mind.

The Nortel rep had originally proposed a Norstar solution, we were able to at least get this to a BCM which seemed a better options when looking at both side by side.

 

[gbaughma]

Well, if your boss has decided to go with his friend's Nortel solution, then that, as they say, is that.

It doesn't matter at this point what you do; if the boss has a "buddy in the business", bite your tongue, and there you go.

as I have been told outright that he has no intention of changing his mind.

There's your answer. We'll miss you.



Just my 2¢

"In order to start solving a problem, one must first identify its owner." --Me
--Greg

 

[pave35]

Good luck tech73. Hope the Nortel works out for you.
We always hate to lose one to an inferior product but that's just the way it goes.
I had a good friend recently change from an older Neax IVS to the Nortel at his Ambulance service in CA. Unfortunately he didn't talk to me before changing over. Well now he wishes he did but it's too large an investment to turn back on now.
The Nortel does what they want but can't do all the little nitty gritty this I had programmed in the back ground.
Apparently when they asked the Nortel guy about having the Nortel do these things (auto-night using multiple modes with over-ride, fax keys for fax indication, remote hold pick-up, etc) he just said sorry this is how you'll have to do it. And he absolutely hates the voice Mail. He asked me if I could install their Octel I had put in there years ago as it was far more reliable and easier to use.
But that's just one perspective. Who knows maybe you'll love the new stuff. Beware though the Nortel parts are a lot more expensive.
One other thing. I hope you don't have analog lines for modems running through the NEC right now cause to run them through the BCM might be a bit of a headache not to mention a rather large expense being that you are adding analog to a true IP solution. This is also Cisco's Achilles heal.