My view of IT career Opportunity looking at the Bureau of Labor Stats. 2

[mmorancbt]

Just a brief note. I recently spoke to some CIS/MIS students on careers in IT. Part of what I present are numbers from the BLS.gov website on job/occupation growth and median wage ranking.

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/archives/006319.asp

I try to provide a more interesting perspective (meaningful) for the numbers.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at:

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

Career Blog:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/

Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

 

[chiph]

The software industry is cyclical. What college students don't often realize is that the time to start in on a CS or MIS degree is right when the industry goes into a down cycle. By the time they graduate, companies are desparate to hire.

Instead, they get discouraged and go off and major in International Studies or something (hint: International Studies generally doesn't pay like a technology degree would).

Chip H.


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[mmorancbt]

You are correct. I view this as the norm for the economy as well. Meaning, find work you are passionate about, first and foremost.. If the economy is doing poorly, go work for a company where you can make great relationships, build skills, etc. Then, as the economy rebounds, take more chances and "go for the kill" as it were.

Of course, I have this highly proactive, I create my own opportunity (or at least I find them), hyperactive personality. That is why I consult, work out of my house, write, speak professionally, etc.

I decided if I can't focus on anything, I'll try to make a business of everything. Also, whether or not the economy is doing well, I adhere to an "Economy of One" philosophy.

I write a lot about that. If the economy in general is doing great but you are un- or under-employed, your economy of one is suffering. Conversely, if the economy is in a recession and unemployment is at 25% but you are gainfully employed and doing well, your economy of one is rocking!

Just a perspective I try to maintain.

But I really did find the numbers fascinating when you sort them in the most meaningful way.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at:

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

Career Blog:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/

Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

 

[langleymass]

You can make numbers mean anything you want them to mean. I will need to be making a lot of money before I start to encourage students (like my 18-year-old nephew) to go into this.

 

[Glenn9999]

Yeah it would take quite a lot to encourage me to suggest that people go into IT these days.

 

[chiph]

I think it depends on the person. Obviously, you need some natural talent in regards to getting computers to do what you want. And to avoid being pigeonholed, you'll want some people skills. Other than that, like I said earlier, the industry is cyclical, and you need to seek employment with that in mind.

The old advice about having 6 months salary in liquid savings is very true for IT.

Chip H.


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[langleymass]

I'm one of the view people out there who actually has much more than that in "liquid savings." People (especially those under 40) look at me like I am crazy when I tell them that I actually have a savings.

 

[LadySlinger]

langley - yes savings is an old term today. With the opportunity in invests, 401(k), stocks, mutal funds, etc, there are other ways to save money and make money at the same time (and there are other ways to lose money and save money at the same time).

IT is all a part of the cycle. Heck, I know social workers that put in just as many hours as we do and have a heck of a lot more stress...but would LOVE to get paid what we do.

If you wake up in the morning and look forward to or don't mind going into your job, then you're on the right path towards your own success.
If you wake up, call in sick, or groan at the thought that it's Friday 6 AM and its still 11 more hours until that clock ticks to 5pm, then I tell people they need to rethink what they're doing in life.

Today is the perfect time to go back to school, earn more certifications and degrees and in 3 or 4 more years we'll be seeing a change in the economy again. It's so much like the weather.

 

[mmorancbt]

I am staying out of this fray except this.

http://www.skepdic.com/neurolin.html

My original post was pointing to numbers. Langleymass, you indicate that one can make the numbers say whatever they want them to. However, I am neither contriving numbers, nor am I performing funny math on them.

I am simply pointing out that when sorted in order of highest median earning and largest percentage of growth, IT careers fair quite nicely.

There are certainly more jobs as Medical Assistants - but median earnings are just above food service workers and you get to change bed pans - not an option for me, thank you.

Anecdotal evidence (your experience, Glenn9999's experience) is not indicative of the industry growth. I simply pointed people at external numbers that I thought were interesting.

Additionally, IT careers are a nice performance based advancement industry. But it is not simply a function of technical know-how. It must be effective know-how directed at a carefully defined business challenge.

Also, you must find employers who place value on the value you can provide. It is meaningless to look at median earnings if you are trying to work for a company that hardly uses technology competitively and places no value on those skills.

Most of all, if you do not have fun doing IT, don't do IT.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at:

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

Career Blog:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/

Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

 

[grande]

Most college students and teens are not stupid enough to go into IT.
Thanks for the reassuring word. I'm in Year 3 of Comp.Sci. (Software Engineering)

-------------------------
Just call me Captain Awesome.

 

[chiph]

grande - you're in a good position. The market is picking up, if you have the right skills. Over the next summer break, try very hard to get an internship.

If you're really good (and I mean *really* good), Joel Spolsky is looking for interns.

http://www.fogcreek.com/Jobs/SummerIntern.html

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
Donate to Katrina relief:

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[langleymass]

Matthew,

What do you expect to gain by posting this spew on the board anyway? I know you are not the only one. Many people have always been promoting this myth that IT is good field to get into. Certainly the certification mills have something to gain, but you are simply a consultant.

My judgments are based on my own experience and on talking with many professionals who work in the field. Many of them are quite dissatisfied and disgusted, even though they are currently employed.

 

[mmorancbt]

Langleymass,

This past year I have directly spoken to about 500 students, 700 instructors, and 250 business executives. Most telling were the business executives. They are screaming to find qualified talent.

Granted, 250 does not make a scientifically valid poll but when 90% percent of them cannot find - and would happily pay - for IT talent, I believe there is opportunity.

When the sheer numbers of people retiring from the field, the current economic growth, and the need point to a tremendous shortage of IT talent - yes, I believe there is opportunity.

Most of the backlash against IT is related to the push back from the late '90s - which was an unrealistic market and damaged the industry.

For all the people you speak to, I can tout those who do well and enjoy it. Once again, anecdotal viewpoints are far less important than the numbers.

But as an anecdote - I realize that I am "simply a consultant." - but I am a consultant who has found a field (IT) that allows me to work out of my house, make a six figure income, and do it in 25-30 hours a week.

I work closely with business owners and managers - which I like, I am viewed as a trusted and respected advisor - which I like, I am given opportunities to expand my business with many of those businesses I serve - which I like.

What is more telling is that I correspond directly with another 10 peers who do the same. Why wouldn't I tell people this is a great opportunity? Why is my anecdotal evidence less valid than yours? Why is what I am doing spewing a myth but you are somehow only stating facts?

Listen, I am the first to say that if you do not like the field and are not enjoying yourself or are burnt out - do something else. I believe succeeding in IT (and any endeavor) requires a degree of passion in either the work or the outcome. If you do not have passion the people who have it will pass you by. I work with a lot of IT departments and I can tell you that most people don't have passion. They are simply punching a clock.

I know a woman who used to be an financial planner. She left that business and bought one of those roadside hot-dog carts. Now she has seven of those carts - working one of them in person. It is her real passion and she does pretty well. I don't view her less professional for selling hotdogs. I view her as more professional for pursuing a passion.

I like solving problems. I like having a direct impact on business and operations. I like having skills that are highly regarded and sought after. I like troubleshooting and problem-solving.

No, that is not true. I don't like it, I am fanatical about it!!! And when I work with others - who are not - it shows. They cannot compete. But when I find those people who do like it, they are on their way.

I had a few employees several years ago. Each of them was new to the field and each of them makes $90k plus now. Through the downturn, they were not only employed but grew their careers.

One of them, a college student who was in a CIS college program but didn't really have any tangible skills, joined me first as an intern and then an employee. Less than 5 years later and 2 years after his graduation from college, he is a "senior" developer with a very large company. He runs a team of developers and does quite nicely.

I am sure he is glad he didn't listen to the negative "spew" but instead applied some skills that I taught him.

Believe me, I gain nothing by posting on this board. Theoretically, someone might buy a copy of my book, but as I make about $1.20 after the retailer and publisher takes their piece, I would need to move A LOT OF THEM to make up for the time just in writing a single post.

But I don't want people misled by the often vocal negative perspective when there are many who tout a different message. Message boards - particular those related to careers and jobs - are a breeding ground for discontent. Mostly because those who are doing well don't show up there.

I will continue to post messages that provide a message of proactive and directed focus as a way to succeed in this or any field. And I am convinced that you will continue to post a negative message about the same.

To the reader, if you want to learn how to do something well - find people doing it well and talk to them. In every field there are those who will provide a negative perspective. You must decide for yourself but beware emulating those with a negative message.

And I am not indicating that you listen to me. Go into the field and speak to managers, IT consultants, IT professionals who are doing well in their field, etc. Their anecdote may be the antitdote for negativity.

Matthew Moran
Read my career blog at:

http://www.cbtoolkit.com

Career Blog:

http://blogs.ittoolbox.com/pm/career/

Todo esta bien.. Todo esta divertido (it's all good, it's all fun)

 

[LadySlinger]

My judgments are based on my own experience and on talking with many professionals who work in the field. Many of them are quite dissatisfied and disgusted, even though they are currently employed."

Then those professionals are in the wrong field...or are the type of people that will complain all the time and never be satisifed (which there are a lot in IT...BEFORE the economic downturn). In which case you might want to rethink hanging around these people. They can mentally bring someone down.

mmorancbt has as much right to express his interpretation in this forum as you do with NLP.
These stats are usually based on trends of what businesses hire. Obviously IT still has a strong trend throughout businesses. I live in the state with the highest unemployment rate right now, but I'm still happy being in IT. The most discouraging part was never getting a response after each interview. But now I have a job that I don't mind waking up to every morning.

Again, the economy does suck in general right now, for ALL professions looking for jobs. As long as you have the experience and the motivation you can survive through this. If not, there will be a different tide in the next 3-4 years where the economy will stabilize. So go back to school, get yourself prepared, do side jobs to help distinguish your experience and when the new tide for the economy rolls in, then you'll be all set.

 

[kHz]

langleymass, you spew your rhetoric ALL the time. I can only surmise that you are trying to eliminate any competition for a job so you can find one. This may be because you have no talent, skill or ability in the field of IT.

People are goiing to be dissatisfied in any profession if they no longer have an ambition for the work. This may be police, journalists, teachers, or any other field. It isn't limited to information technology.

Rather than spouting your babble, why not refrain from the topic since you provide no evidence to back up your comments.

 

[kHz]

So langleymass, just what is a good field to go into?

 

[flapeyre]

My judgments are based on my own experience and on talking with many professionals who work in the field. Many of them are quite dissatisfied and disgusted, even though they are currently employed.

Which only means that you have gravitated towards others in the same boat as you (with a leaky hull, and rapidly taking on water).

Believe it or not, some of us actually enjoy what we do.

Dic mihi solum facta, domina.

 

[langleymass]

Matthew,

I will provide the one perspective that I have from a pretty well-respected CIO. He is the CIO of Whole Foods Market, a Fortune 500 company based here in Austin.

He says quite simply that Whole Foods gets tons and tons of resumes. It is pretty obvious why. Whole Foods has earned a reputation for being a good place to work. They value their employees and treat them with dignity and respect. That is exactly the impression I get from talking to other people who work there.

Unlike these other managers you cite, Whole Foods is definitely not "screaming to find qualified talent." How do these other managers treat their employees? What kind of reputation do these employers have?

Every employer gets what he or she deserves. Every company has the turnover it deserves.

It also sounds like you have had some good people working for you, Matthew. You most likely deserved them.

 

[kHz]

langleymass, that doesn't come close to explaining why IT is such a bad field to get into, as you claim time and again.

Because one company is good to work for and they receive many, many resumes?

There are school systems that receive hundreds of resumes for one opening. So I can infer that teaching is a terrible profession to go into and you would tell others not to become a teacher. And I could infer that one school system is great because they have so many applicants.

What is a good profession to get into?

And by the way, most people change careers 4-5 times in their working lives, and have somewhere around 20 jobs. So why discourage someone from getting an IT or CS degree? They may work in that career path for 10 or 15 years and decide to become a teacher. So stop telling people to get out of IT or not to go into the field.

 

[BocaBurger]

What is IT talent? Take a look at the job postings in ComputerWorld. You have to be the Network admin, Sys Admin, program in JAVA, C, Pascal, VB, Fortran and .Net, be the help desk, know Windows, Solaris, AIX, Z/OS, OS/400, network all of them together with twine and Elmer's glue; and they tell you this job has a 40 hour week.



BocaBurger
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