My career need advice! Why so many recruiters... 3

[sillyVM]

Here I am, one year out of college. I have been with this software company for a year, doing system admin's work. I found my passion in Linux and some dba duties. I know some facts about my current state:

1. underpaid by more than 30%
2. well rounded in nearly all aspect of IT
3. can probably learn a lot more if I go into a larger environment.

So I have secretly looking for new opportunties, where I can move to a bigger fish pond, and probably get paid more justified. I have been getting many interview/phone from all these recruiters for few weeks. (one of them is exceptionally professional and helpful with my resume) anyway, none of these led to anywhere. Some of them were quite awful, don't know what I needed, and just completely doesn't get it. I mean the city I live isn't exactly like a big market like atlanta,chicago or new york.

They also gave me those skill assessment test, I take them, got about 80%-90% percentile in scoring. LOL, i mean it's kind of silly using these test. But at least my 1 year of experience didn't appear to be a weakness.

So here I am still waiting for the right opportunity to come alone. I just want to know what you guys experiences are with recruiters? I got awfully a lot of phone calls from them that usually leads to assessment test and no real job placement. I mean now I can do an interview at any time without preparations. Yet, all these leds to no where. Does company do their own work anymore? Why so many recruiters? I have to complain at here a little bit to let out the stress built-up. Sorry guys, let me know what you think.

 

[SQLSister]

HR departments hire recruiters because they have cut back on thier own staffs or because they do not have staff who can assess the qualifications of technical people. Little do they know, most recruiters can't either.

The recruiter game is to get you in their database so when a job comes along, they can pull names out of the system quickly. Many, if not most of the ads, they put out are not for real jobs. This is one reason why you aren't getting many interviews past the skills test level. Even when recruiters have actual jobs they may be sending the client hundreds of resumes from their database and the client is determining who to interview. Your one year of experience may be hurting you here. Further, most recuited positions are for people with more years of experience than you have. Companies generally are more willing to hire recruiters only when the position is not so easy to find someone qualified to fill. There are plently of folks out there with less than 5 years experience, so they are easier for the HR people to find.

Suggest you directly approach the companies you want to work for and see if there are any openings. Again you may just get into a database of applicants, but when there is an opening, many companies will pull from this smaller list first before hiring a recruiter because recuiteres are expensive.

Network with professionals in your area and give them your resume.

Frankly at your level, most managers have plenty to choose from, so you need to show something that will make you stand out from the crowd (in a positive way, negative standing out from the crowd won't get you interviews. For instance we laughed at the guy who sent us a ten-page resume when he had only a year of experience. We didn't interview him.) You have a lot of competition, why should a manager hire you instead of John Doe?

So what impresses managers? Accomplishments and quantification. If you had 100 resumes and 99 of them said something like "responsible for managing network of 50 work stations" and one of them said, "Designed and implemented a network for 50 people that reduced down time 25% from the previous network." which one would you interview?

"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared

 

[paterson]

Recruiters are sometimes a necessary evil, but some do a better job than others.

Some recruiters are actually contracted by companies to find skilled workers because the company does not know how to find skilled help or they don't have the time to sift through the garbage applications to find a couple of gems. You will find that some recruiters are very focused on only certain skill sets which enables them to find what they are looking for.

I say "some recruiters are actually contracted" because some aren't. These are the ones that will search job postings online or in a newspaper or whatever and then create their own posting. Then once you respond to their posting, they take your resume to the original posting company and see if they can get a "finders fee". If the company says no, then guess where your resume goes!!!

Then there's the recruiter that will just fish for specific skill sets without having a position available and get a bunch of resumes that they don't currently need. Then when an opportunity arises, they look through what they already have. I know some companies that do this too.

I would advise you to ask very pointed, specific questions when dealing with a recruiter, especially when they contact you out of the blue when they find your resume posted on a job site or something. Ask about specifics of the job, who is the company, what is the salary range. This should help you to not waste your time and may help weed out some of the bad apples. Over time you will know what recruiters or recruitment companies are the good ones.

**************************************
Insert Witty Signature Here.

 

[DonQuichote]

My experience with recruiters is "extreme". I encountered recruiters who did not know anything of the job they offered, even recruiters that wanted to bypass the law to pay less, and recruiters that found me a good new job on Monday when I got a quit notice on Friday morning.

Lots of recruiters just want to have your file and do not have a job for you. My experience is that if a recruiter does not have any "deep" information of what you do or can do, you can't expect a job from them either. For example, if you are a technical draftsman and they start asking what AutoCAD is (no joke alas), move on.

So the best advice I can give is to keep your eyes open. If someone asks intelligent questions, you are probably dealing with a pro. But written tests could be just copied.

Good luck!

+++ Despite being wrong in every important aspect, that is a very good analogy +++
Hex (in Darwin's Watch)

 

[PHettinger]

I myself am looking for a consulting gig and find I get recruited for the same gig from 5 or 6, all of which (so far) I've never heard of before. Some are real pushy too. I think in the future I will ask some pretty pointed questions about why I should let that firm represent me. I haven't gotten one real interview out of them yet, let alone a job offer.

 

[acewarlock]

Lately I have been getting about 5 recruiter's a week Emailing me with Job's they say are perfect for me, but have nothing to do with anything I have ever done and they want a new copy of my Resume.




This is a Signature and not part of the answer, it appears on every reply.

This is an Analogy so don't take it personally as some have.

Why change the engine if all you need is to change the spark plugs.

 

[chiph]

File those in your spam folder.

Other warning signs that the email is recruiter spam:

1. Addressed to 'Dear Job Applicant'

2. Was sent from an email account that is automated (i.e. In the intertubes, no one can hear you scream)

3. The text is so generic, it's obvious they didn't read your resume: "Dear Chip, your resume looks just like we've been looking for! Please send us your current resume" (uhhh, didn't you just read it?)

4. Emails that direct you to their website, where you fill in your info into a poorly written web form. The kind that insists on your ZIP+4, despite your living in Canada.

Chip H.


____________________________________________________________________
If you want to get the best response to a question, please read FAQ222-2244 first

 

[paterson]

I had one recruiter contact me after looking at my resume. It clearly showed my work history. He was contacting me about an AMAZING opportunity that he thought I was perfect for. Of course I was perfect for it... It was the job I had just left! This AMAZING opportunity was to replace me!

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Insert Witty Signature Here.

 

[mrdenny]

That's funny. I had that happen a few months ago. I made a point of making the recruiter (who didn't speak english very well either) feel like a moron for not reading my resume before calling me.

Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
MCTS (SQL 2005 / Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services 3.0: Configuration / Microsoft Office SharePoint Server 2007: Configuration)
MCITP Database Administrator (SQL 2005) / Database Developer (SQL 2005)

My Blog

 

[sillyVM]

Okay, seems like everybody had a good share of good/bad experiences. I understand some recruiters are excellent professionals. But if one day I am in the position of hiring somebody, I think I would rather do the work on my work. Searching/interviewing people is the fun part. hehe

 

[Welshbird]

I've just spoken to a recruiter and without being prompted she new that the job I was asking about was a great location for me but using experience I just don't have.

Now and again you find a really good one.

Fee

"The cure for anything is salt water – sweat, tears, or the sea." Isak Dinesen

 

[wlemery]

Recruiters, AKA Headhunters or Fleshpeddlers, have their own list of priorities. You may be surprised to learn that your own well-being doesn't appear on that list. That being the case, here are a few suggestions for you from a long term contractor:

Your very first priority above all else is to get a job offer. If you don't like the offer, you can always walk away from it - and don't be afraid to do so. To this end:

1. Ask the Headhunter what it takes to get an interview with the client. Tell the Headhunter you're good at interviews, either phone calls or face to face.

2. Ask the Headhunter how many other contractors he's placed with this company, what it's like to work there (What's the working environment?) and why the company is looking for a man of your particular talents. When the Headhunter pretends not to know what you mean by 'working environment', ask him if you get your own private office or is it cube hell. Ask about the dress code, unpaid overtime, carrying a pager and who you'll be saluting when you report to work. If by some miracle you find a Headhunter who does not ask what you mean by 'working environment', but instead fires off the straight skinny on the job including the parts he doesn't know about, do not lose this man's number. He's a rare commodity and should occupy a prominent place on your Christmas card list.

3. Pay little to no attention to the list of qualifications for the job. Tell the Headhunter you're a quick study, love to learn new things and will do so on your own time by reading books, practicing on your own, etc.

4. When you ask the Headhunter the sixty-four thousand dollar question, remember this: He who speaks first, loses. "How much is the salary" is usually answered with another question; How much are you looking for? At this point I stop dancing and remind the Headhunter that he's the one with the help wanted sign outside, and he knows what they are willing to pay. On no account should you offer any numbers here. Again, if you find a Headhunter that just tells you the rate flat out, don't lose the man's number. He's rare.

5. As above, ask about the benefits, like health insurance. Health insurance is valuable. So is vacation.

Keep in mind that the Headhunter's world is controlled chaos. If your calls aren't returned it's because the client isn't interested. When the client becomes interested in you, the Headhunter will get hold of you no matter where you are or what you're doing. Trust me, these people are good at that kind of thing. You will then, for a short time, become the most important person in the Headhunter's world. If the client likes what they hear on the interview, your VIP status will be extended.

Good luck to you, and remember that this is a numbers game. More contacts means more offers.

 

[aarenot]

Do a search on the web for "Ask the Headhunter", you should find a column listed which also has a newsletter available. Check it out, my sister recomended it to me, and she was/is a headhunter/recruiter in house for an IT firm, and then for a multinational company. She was not your typical recruiter, but placed at least a half dozen CCIE people in a couple years, as well as founding an IT recruiters network in her states capital that became the largest in the state.

Biggest piece of advice is, find the (dream)company where you want to work, then find a way to meet someone who is inside that can help you. You may think this is not possible, or too big a task, then don't get a job there then.

 

[straybullet]

I can't begin to count the number of these 'recruiters' who are now part of my junk sender's list due to either not having any idea of details of the supposed position that I'm 'perfect for' or because they simply refuse to answer simple questions about the amazing opportunity such as it's location!

Let them hate - so long as they fear... Lucius Accius

 

[mrdenny]

...because they simply refuse to answer simple questions about the amazing opportunity such as it's location!

I had this once. I live in Southern California, so a recruiter called me up about this great position he had. When ever I asked him about where it was the only response was "California". After repeating myself three times I pointed out that California was ~800 miles long and 200 miles wide, asking again where it was. He told me that it was in San Jose, and asked if he could submit me for the position.

Now for those of you not familiar with California, San Jose is up north. It's about a 6-9 hour drive (depending on how fast you go and if it's snowing over the grapevine, which can increase it to a 2 day drive if you aren't careful). I told him this, and told him that he probably should do a little more research before calling people about jobs which would have a 16 hour per day commute.

Recruiters are pimps and should be treated as such (for the most part).

Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
MCTS (SQL 2005 / Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services 3.0: Configuration / Microsoft Office SharePoint Server 2007: Configuration)
MCITP Database Administrator (SQL 2005) / Database Developer (SQL 2005)

My Blog

 

[paterson]

Say hello to my new signature!!!

Recruiters are pimps and should be treated as such

You don't mind, do you mrdenny?

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Recruiters are pimps and should be treated as such

 

[mrdenny]

Not at all.

Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
MCTS (SQL 2005 / Microsoft Windows SharePoint Services 3.0: Configuration / Microsoft Office SharePoint Server 2007: Configuration)
MCITP Database Administrator (SQL 2005) / Database Developer (SQL 2005)

My Blog

 

[sillyVM]

I also have recruiters, numerous times, call me and discuss an opening position and tell me he will give me a call back a few hours later and never does. What kind of trick is that? At least 3 people did that to me, all of them males.

 

[aarenot]

SillyVM,
I do not want to discourage you as you seem like a real go getter, or you would not be pursuing your carreer, and it's betterment right out of college. The right out of college part is how it is seen, anything less than three years experience is not really called experience to those of us who have worked in the real world for longer than you went to college. You were not working in the industry for how long while you went to college? The guys who were working, even at the helpdesk while starting college at night will be ahead of you as far as when we look at your experience. 1,2,3, or 4 years workling within an organization while going to college would push you along a carreer with the experience it adds farther than walking in with a degree, and no experience. You would have to catch up to the guy who is still going to school, but has been doing the job without the degree because he was promoted into it with the understanding he would get the degree. Wait until you have 2, or at least three years before you mention the word experience.

The only exception I would make to that is if you work for a third party provider, and have been doing project after project for two years, as I feel that equals three working in house somewhere without the constant roll outs of projects.

 

[SQLSister]

If a recruiter does not get back to you that means that he either had no real job or he presented your resume and the client turned it down. Recuiters don't have time to get back to people unless the client is interested in them. It may not seem very fair, but it is the way the world is.

From a hiring perspective, 1 year of experience is not usually competitive in the marketplace when I can either get someone straight out of school for a lower salary or someone with significantly more experience for the same money (or slightly more money but the extra experience makes that a better deal) you want. This is possibly the worst time as far as competiveness in the marketplace to be looking for work.

"NOTHING is more important in a database than integrity." ESquared