Must shut down Exchange to get a "REAL" backup??? 1

[Pointfreak]

Hello.

Our IT department has recently informed us that our Exchange 5.5 server must be shut down daily in order to get a "REAL" backup. We use Arcserve with the Exchange agent, but the claim is that "By the time Arcserve backs up the database, the log files have changed, and you end up with a mismatched backup".

We are not a large company (150 accounts). I find it very hard to believe that fortune 500 companies around the globe are shutting down their production servers daily, just to make backups! Must we really do this? Doesnt Arcserve take this into account?

It is my belief that something is just not setup correctly.

Thanks! [sig][/sig]

 

[Warcorp]

Yes Arcserve does take this into account. Arcerve's agent takes into account to contextual nature of the backup at the time it starts. The brick level backup looks at the current state of each mailbox and backs up emails the are appropriate for the pass. In the compare, it's going to look at only those objects it has backed up. My company uses the Arserve Agent to backup both the Exchange DB files and at Brick level. We have tested at the bricklevel, backing up, destroying the mailbox, and restoring without difficulty. This is not to say there isn't a problem as you should always test the back up, but to finish up the question, if you stop exchange, the DB agent for Arcserve will no longer even work as it uses the Exchange client transport to grab it's data, and you would have to backup the exchange files outside the agent. [sig][/sig]

 

[Ybnorml]

I use Veritas Backup Exec. There are a few levels of backup with this program. Neither of these require you to shut down the server to get a good backup. My backup is successful each night.

 

[comtutor]

I also use Vertitas backup, with a special Exchange option $$$, which allows you to backup open data bases. I have version 7 and it works seemlessly.

Draq
comtutor@uswestmail.net
Good Luck with this information

"It's not what you know, or who you know, but who you know that knows what !" --- Me

"Visualize Whirled Peas" --- Kelly Bundy

 

[kjonnnnn]

I use Backup Exec also. If a file is open it just moves on. The log will says its been unsuccessful, but it just didnt back up open files.

 

[dsi]

We are in the same boat. The problem is that Arcserve will not backup the open database. The only way to close it is to shut down the Exchange services. Needless to say, we want to be able to backup the database without shutting down exchange.

Pointfreak:
Are you a 24 hour company? Our MIS director has been working on a scheduled application that shuts down the services before the backup is initiated and restarts them afterwards. Let me know if this is something you may be interested in and I will look into it further.

 

[Pointfreak]

tclere:

That is exactly what we are doing. A batch file shuts down the services, a backup is made, then the services are restarted. Of course incoming mail during this period is lost. Seems pretty rinky-dink to me. What is the point of the Arcserve Exchange module if it wont back up an open, operating database?

This seems to contradict what Warcorp says. Anyone else know a way around this (using Arcserve)? Thanks for the input from the rest of you, but we dont use Veritas.

 

[dsi]

I was also hoping that someone else could answer this question.

I am not sure that the e-mail coming in during that period is lost. It may just depend on how your system is configured. For example, our e-mail comes in from our ISP. The mail is not actually delivered until the user starts Outlook. Then, it goes through Exchange, then to the desktop. This is extremely beneficial when someone is out of the office. They can go to our ISPs website and get their mail. It is only removed from their server once it is downloaded to the user's desktop.

By the sounds of it, ArcServe support has really helped you as well. LOL

 

[parkermms]

I think that maybe your tech folks are looking at the logs incorrectly. Or they dont have the agent installed/configured properly. What happens is Arcserve will back up the server drives first and give you all kind of errors saying that it couldnt back up the open files. Further into the log if everything is configured correctly you should see another entry for the exchange portion saying that everything processed ok. I would print out the log files they are easier to look at that way and see if this is the case.

 

[Warcorp]

Pointfreak, et al...Arcserve out of the box will not backup an open database such as Exchange however with the Exchange Agent Option, it interacts with the Exchange message store and backs up on the fly by talking to Exchange as an administrative client. If you were using Arcserve alone, yes you would need to down the services but using the Exchange Option, you do not have to.

tclere, To answer your question: For SMTP mail, generally an smtp sender will hold an email for 53 attempts (2-3 days) which is the default wait time for SMTP delivery (be aware this can be altered at the smtp server). If the IMC is offline the mail will be held at the last relay point (Either it's origination, or at your isp) for 53 tries, at the 54th, it returns as undeliverable. If IMC is online but the transport is down (Mta and or message store) then IMC will hold on to the email until it can deliver to the postoffice.

 

[cichlid]

I use Arcserve on a number of Exchange servers and all but one backs up successfully (the one has other problems). I have ASO installed as well as BAOF and Exchange Agent and it also backs up the Bridgehead server across the network using NT Client Agent. It took me a while to get it to all work but works without shutting things down. Bricklevel is not used though. Are there any specific errors when it is run without shutting down Exchange?

 

[mickola]

I have the Arcserve Exchange Agent installed, Arcserve 2000 installed on a Win2k Server. I can do backups with regular servers (Netware, Win2k) but I can't backup an Exchange Server 5.5. Everytime I submit an Exchange server backup job in Arcserve, it stalls and eventually locks up. I get the following error(s) under the Event Viewer:

"The description for Event ID ( 163 ) in Source ( MSExchangeDSExp ) cannot be found. The local computer may not have the necessary registry information or message DLL files to display messages from a remote computer. The following information is part of the event: C:\DOCUME~1\EXCHBA~1\LOCALS~1\Temp\EXC29D.tmp."

Sometimes the event id is 36 or 37. Has anyone else had this problem?

 

[AlexIT]

We use a batch file to shut down the services, backup the whole thing, then restart the services. We have two servers and back up one at a time. Also, incoming mail is caught by our ISP if the connectiong to our server is offline (very good if power fails, telephone line breaks etc.)

The Arcserve Exchange agent doesn't do a "brick-level" backup like this, but it does fine at copying the mailboxes from inside the database. (Just costs $$$.)

Alex

 

[festerrob]

You might try checking into an "Open File Agent" that works with the Exchange agent in Arcserve. That will allow you to leave all services running (and as an earlier thread pointed out the backup software is using the Exchange services for its own use so shutting them down will not help you) and still get the databases backed up. I have a similar setup to yours and have been using Veritas with the Exchange agent as well as the Open File Option with much success and stability. I never shut down services unles I am doing a major upgrade and then I do shut down all services and get a COLD backup.

Now a more cynical approach is to release a disclaimer that states that all mail is subject to loss and that clients should archive important messages to a .pst file on the file server. That moves to responsibility to the end user of knowing what is REALLY important and backing it up.
Good Luck though.

 

[Guest_imported]

We also use the Veritas package here and it works without issues. If people are in email it will state them as being open and back them up. I've never had any good experiences with Arcserve in general, FWIW

 

[Xybertron]

We have a backup API that utlizes pat files for online (services running) backups. It gets the transactions during the backup and then removes the committes log files. NTBackup uses this and it is free. Scheduling is cumbersome but again its free. Just have the Exchange 5.5 Admin installed on the backup server.

Use an Open File Option to backup and don't epect to keep your job very long if the server crashes. Use an "Exchange" Aware backup and do online backups so that the log drive doesn't fill up.

Dan
Microsoft Exchange Support @ Microsoft

 

[yizhar]

HI.

Here are some of my backup and management tips for several SMB Exchange servers that our company manages:

* Remember that you're doing the backups for the purpose of restore. And anyone will tell you that Exchange restore can be a nightmare or sometimes nightsmare.
So, whatever your backup plan is, you MUST have a valid restore plan, for disaster recovery and also for a specific lost mailbox/item.
Making a test restore is very important.

* We are using Arcserve on some servers and Backup Exec on other, both with Exchange agent. Backup Exec seems to work better (less errors) with Exchange brick level but both products are working, and there are other 3rd party backup software with Exchange agents.
I backup the server daily with the 3rd party agent, selecting BOTH the databases (for disaster recovery) and brick level (for brick restore and as additional distaster recovery source).
I also do a weekly offline backup using a CMD file that stops the Exchange services and copies databases to another folder on disk. This is my 3rd source for faster disaster recovery. On a 1gb database it takes about 10 min of Exchange down time.
You can download that script from my site (signature).

* It is also very important that you backup the server WINNT folder including the Registry.
This is obvious to most of us, but some people don't know it.
It is needed for disaster recovery to rebuils your original installation.

* Like with any backup, it is important to keep history tapes using a daily + weekly + monthly rotation plan.
This (with brick level) will give you an options to restore a specific mailbox or item from the past.

* Keeping your Exchange databases as small as possible is also an important part of your backup plan. Y?
Because the restore time is highly dependant on your databases size!
Some basic procedures like configuring all clients to empty deleted items, and archiving "Sent Items" periodicaly can have a dramatic effect on the private store size.
This can be done at the client, or at the server using "Mailbox Manager" or other MS and 3rd party utils.

Bye
Yizhar Hurwitz

http://come.to/yizhar

http://teachers.sivan.co.il/yizhar

 

[Xybertron]

"Because the restore time is highly dependant on your databases size!"

Actually database size is not really the factor. More the amount of logs generated between backups. Expect at least 20-30 seconds to replay a log file. I've seen several thousand in one day on the big customers.
Dan
Microsoft Exchange Support @ Microsoft

 

[thephilster]

We are using Exchange 5.5 and Arcserve for our backup and getting "Read/Write error in named pipes" on individual folders within individual mailboxes and cannot seem to get rid of it. We have tried closing the mailboxes and it doesn't make any difference!

 

[N0ktar]

I use NTBackup with a batch I got written for sheduling. Works like a charm, I do exchange restore weekly on a non-production server, no issues there and my exchange is available 24/7. I used Arcserve software before but I didn't like it.