MS wireless keyboard not being detected

[BritJim]

My Microsoft Wireless Optical Desktop 700 worked fine until recently, when the keyboard was suddenly no longer detected during boot. Mouse continues to be OK. Even when keyboard not working (after each reboot), the LED of the associated wireless receiver blinks when keys pressed suggesting battery & reception conditions are good. Keyboard works perfectly as soon as I unplug & replug the wireless receiver USB connector... until the next reboot.
Device Manager shows all USB controllers healthy. Just in case, I reinstalled the VIA USB Enhanced Host Controller driver.
Event Viewer lists Kbdclass Error 9 (twice in succession) at every boot: "Could not enable interrupts on connected port device \Device\KeyboardClass0"
I'm running MS Intellitype Pro 5.2 (but I've also tried 5.5 and 6.1 to no avail) and Task Manager shows the 5.2 application process "type32.exe" to be running OK immediately after reboot.
Any ideas anybody?
________________________________________________
Win2K Pro, V5.0.2195 Bld 2195, SP4 + all updates
AMD Athlon 1.8GHz processor with Cool'n'Quiet
Award Modular BIOS V6.00PG
1GB RAM
Firewall ZoneAlarm Pro Version 7.0.337.000
Kaspersky AV V6.0.2.614
Mozilla Firefox & Thunderbird, both V1.5.0.10

 

[BritJim]

Let me say here & now that I really appreciated your help over the past few days, kestrel1, and it was only through trying all your eminently sensible tricks without these achieving the logically-expected result, that I went for something basic. I'd say you have every right to tell me I should have told you about the new usb hub right from the start.
Anyway, the hub remains problematic whether I connect its power supply or not and whether its output ports are occupied or not. Obviously my purchasing such a thing was a case of spoiling the ship for a ha'porth of tar.
The hub in my (DVI) monitor worked flawlessly, so not all hubs can be bad.
You can be sure I'll let you know if the current repeatedly successful detection of my wireless keýboard turns out not to be permanent!

 

[kestrel1]

Lets face it, we all over look something when looking for a solution.
I think a PCI USB card might be a better option for you, as long as you have a spare PCI slot. Out of interest, what size is you PSU? I am wondering if it has enough power to power everything on your system.

 

[BritJim]

Went to type this reply earlier today and guess what -- keyboard didn't work...
AAAAaaaaaaarrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!!!!!
I then noticed that I had shut down the PC having left my keyring flash drive plugged in to one of the front USB sockets. Removed this, rebooted and the keyboard worked.
For the past couple of years I've lived happily with the following stuff always connected to 3 of the 4 rear USBs:
- keyboard (always on)
- printer (previously always on but recently on only when required to save power -- gone green)
- monitor-based hub (always on)
Always connected to this monitor-based hub were:
- previously 1 recently 2 PDAs (plugged in to their cradles, powered up & on only occasionally, never together)
- camera (plugged in & powered up only occasionally)
- film negative scanner (always plugged in but powered up & on only rarely)
As you know I lost this monitor-based hub when I changed the monitor.
The 2 front USBs are used for 2 keyring flash drives, only occasionally connected and then usually only one at a time except when synchronising the stored data, usually never left plugged in during shut down & reboot.
The PC PSU is a

http://www.tagan.com

TG330-U01 330W with speed-controlled fan for (almost) silent running (as is the CPU). I hear the CPU fan speeding up now and then but I've never heard the PSU fan at all (but it _is_ running!) and I'm pretty sure it's living an easy life. The PSU drives a TX motherboard (with on-board everything + 1.8MHz AMD Athlon 64 Cool'n'Quiet + 1GB RAM), three HDDs (40,80,80GB), ATI Radeon 9550 video card and that's all. The CD-ROM and CD Writer drives are almost never running. The PC is never used for gaming or for any power-hungry apps. The CPU temp is usually around 33 deg C with the fan speed rising to high at around 35 deg C.
According to Device Manager USB Properties:
- 2.0 Root Hub, 8 ports available each 500mA, power required 0mA (Note: only 6 come out to sockets on PC)
- Root Hub, 2 ports each 500mA, 2 available, pwr reqd 0mA
- Root Hub, 2 ports each 500mA, 2 available, pwr reqd 0mA
- Root Hub, 2 ports each 500mA, 1 available, pwr reqd 100mA
- Root Hub, 2 ports each 500mA, 2 available, pwr reqd 0mA

So there we are -- a deepening mystery!

 

[BritJim]

Latest news:
Removed all USB connections except keyboard/mouse receiver. Connected one PDA direct to PC, rear.
Root Hub (third from top in prev. posting) showed:
- Root Hub, Palm handheld 500mA (Palm cradle power plug not connected to AC, 500mA remained shown when connected)
Rebooted, keyboard worked.
Connected keyring flash drive direct to USB rear, rebooted, keyboard did not work until I disconnected and reconnected plug.

 

[kestrel1]

I have a feeling that your PSU is under powered for your system. I think you would need something more in the region of 400w upwards. Have a look at this calculator & see what it says:

http://www.pimprig.com/downloads/download.php?file=19

You should just need to click on agree to download.
I have done a rough estimate on your system & it was coming out at about 370w. I was guessing some of it though.
Let us know.

 

[BritJim]

According to 'your' CPU calulator app (the settings for which I also had to do a fair bit of guesswork), you're absolutely right to suspect my PSU and I wish I'd thought to specify a beefier one, but I'm not convinced it's the culprit because of the following facts...
- My system as previously described worked without problems with the in-monitor hub
- The wireless mouse has never failed to work after booting even though it shares the same receiver as the keyboard
- When I booted from 'your' Linux CD, nothing but the operating system changed inside the PC and nothing at all had changed outside it (even the apparently problematic USB hub with its attached devices had remained connected)

What d'you think?

 

[kestrel1]

I know what you mean. If the system was fine with the in-monitor hub though, this may point at your current hub being at fault. However it could be that the PSU is starting to fail & not delivering the correct voltages to the main board etc.
When using the Linux CD, the system would be using much less of the resources than Windows would.
I am not sure, but I would think that the wireless mouse requires much less power to work than the Keyboard.
If you remove your USB hub, does the system function with no problems? If that is the case I would suggest that you would be better off with an internal PCI USB card, as suggested in an earlier post. However, if you do a calculation on the amount of USB devices that you are using, plus an extra PCI card that would push your PSU well over the limit. Did you include the USB hub as one of your USB devices, as this will still consume power.
I am not totally convinced that it is the PSU, but I do know that if they are starting to fail it is difficult to diagnose problems that are occuring in the system. I have had cases that various problems are happening on the system & found that a replacement PSU sorted the problem. I have got a PSU test unit now that should discover any faults on the PSU's power delivery, this is not fool proof though.
Do you have anyway to test the PSU or maybe swap it out for a higher powered unit on a temporary basis, to test this theory?

 

[BritJim]

Thanks for your continuing interest!
I don't know either whether the mouse uses less USB power than the keyboard, but I do know that Bill Gates' claims that the batteries will last 6 months in his Wireless Optical Desktop 700 is a joke (like most of his software). In the keyboard yes, in the mouse no way even though it goes to sleep when untouched. It was a bonus when famous-name alkaline AAA cells lasted a week in the mouse, which cost me an arm and a leg in new batteries for which reason I switched to 1000mA rechargables which currently last 2 weeks and seem to be improving with each recharge as expected. Before you ask, I have to stick with alkaline batteries in the keyboard because the size AA rechargables are too fat to fit into the battery holder in the keyboard, but every 6 months to buy 2 cells is OK even at typical AA cell inflated prices.
As for the power taken by USB devices, the only ones that are always connected to the PC are the printer (to which since I went green there is no AC supply connected except when I'm actually printing, scanning, copying or faxing), the mouse/keyboard receiver and the hub (to which no routinely-on devices are connected: all connected devices are typically powered off except rarely or in the case of my Palm TX and car satnav not even in their cradles).
Also, at no time does the PC or specifically the keyboard complain when extra power is taken by a suddenly plugged-in and switched-on USB device, except as described immediately after booting. I'd have thought a PSU made to sag by a sudden demand for more current than it could supply would cause problems even while the PC is running (but waht do I know!).
I only have the video card in a PCI slot (if the AGP slot is still a PCI slot). No other PCI cards in the machine.
I did tell 'your' PSU calculator about the USB hub and stuff, yes.
I'm afraid there's no way I can test or replace the PSU without buying a new one blind (lost touch with all useful contacts from a practical point of view when I moved relatively recently from the UK to Dresden). I'd rather prefer to try other stuff before taking the new PSU step.
Is there any way for me to check the 'standard' USB or keyboard settings in the Registry? Maybe something there has been incorrectly set. My idea stems from scanning Tek-Tips for Win2K keyboard problems: there's a thread entitled "No mouse or keyboard windows 2000" which points to

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q257729.

This includes a reference to editing the Registry on a remote machine for some reason, but editing out the 'remote' stuff in the Edit the Registry section, the instructions become:
- Click Hkey_Local_Machine and then navigate to the key: System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt
- Double-click the Start:REG_DWORD:0x4 value, and then change it to 0x1.
- Navigate to System\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid
- Double-click the Start:REG_DWORD:0x1 value, and then change it to 0x4.
- Double-click the Service:REG_SZ:kbdhid value, and then change it to i8042prt.
I had a look at these entries (changing nothing on the way!!) and noticed that the Service:REG_SZ:kbdhid value seems not to be present in my Registry.
If you have any advice on this front, I have ERUNT on board for making Registry backups just in case.

 

[kestrel1]

That is totally crazy. Only two weeks of mouse use before a recharge. I have a Logitec Wireless keyboard & mouse combo & they have been running for at least six months with no problems. That is real heavy use. I must say though that my mouse is not optical, but even so.
From what I can make out from the MS artical, this is refering to changing to the USB driver whilst using PS2 keyboard & mouse. You could however try switching to that driver if it is on your system (sorry unable to check as I am on XP). If you go through the steps to change the driver manually & get it to show all drivers & see if that driver is there.
AGP is not PCI & does consume more power, but this does mainly depend on your graphics card.
From what you are saying, I am moving more towards a software problem & not power. If you are not using the USB hub, can you remove it from the system? I am wondering if it is the hub that is causing your problem.

 

[BritJim]

Re the mouse short battery life, I moaned to the store from which I purchased the MS Wireless Optical Desktop 700 and even showed them the 6-month battery life claim on boxes still on the shelf, but they insisted this was nonsense. They claimed only a (particular?) Logitech wireless mouse achieved anything like 6 months and this was mainly because the thing had a manual on/off switch (no live circuitry waiting to detect movement to wake up the sleeping mouse).
I looked up i8042prt and it does indeed belong to a PS/2 product as you deduced from the article.
I could of course live without the hub under my circumstances, but then I'd have to have a bunch of USB plug-ended cables on my desk near a USB socket-ended cable or two ready to connect the wanted one(s) together as & when needed. Not very 21st-Century stuff and rather user-unfriendly!
Before going any further, I decided to check out the IntelliType Pro software on my machine. As you might recall, in my 28 May posting I said I'd uninstalled the older version of Intellitype and installed Intellitype Pro 6.1

Anyway, today, in Add/Remove Programs I see Intellitype Pro 6.1 (and only Intellitype Pro 6.1) installed. BUT, when I look in Windows Explorer, under C:\Program Files\ I see the following (I've included the mouse for reference -- you'll see why):

Microsoft IntelliPoint (inc. the file ipoint.exe)
|
|--1033
|
|--Components
|
|

Microsoft IntelliPoint 6.02
|
|--IPoint
|
|--Setup
|
|

Microsoft IntelliType Pro (inc. the file itype.exe)
|
|--1033
|
|--Components
|
|

Microsoft IntelliType Pro 5.2
|
|--IType
|
|--Setup
|
|

Very strange, don't you think???

 

[kestrel1]

Even though you have un-installed the older software, it may still be showing the installations if the un-install was not too good. You may find that if you tried to run one of the older programs it may not work.
What store did you purchase the MS stuff from? I can't believe that they are selling this stuff. It is a typical MS thing, put the stuff out, let the end user find the problems. Then we might fix it, if we can be arsed.
I know it isn't the ideal solution, but if it does continue to work without the hub, it may be that causing the problem. That is why I was a bit suspect of the PSU.
Have you tried a manual install of the driver mentioned in the MS KB artical?
One thing you could try, is to remove all USB devices & just put the keyboard/mouse interface in the hub, not direct into the machine. This may prove the hub is at fault if it fails.
Even if the printer is switched off, still remove the cable. I have known some printers to still be recognised whilst switched off. I know mine is.

 

[kestrel1]

all the above is a bit of straw clutching, as you can probably guess.

 

[BritJim]

Removed Intellitype 6.1 via Add/Remove, manually deleted Intellitype 5.2 in Win Explorer and rebooted, installed Intellitype 6.1 and rebooted: no change to drivers as detailed on 28 May and keyboard worked (because no hub). Plugged hub into PC, rebooted: keyboard didn't work. Plugged Receiver into hub, rebooted: Mouse worked, keyboard didn't. Disconnected then reconnected hub, without reboot, keyboard newly detected by Windows and worked. Rebooted with hub in PC and Receiver in hub: mouse OK as alwys, keyboard failed. Does this bring up any ideas?
Purchased the MS stuff from local outlet of nationwide hitech reseller, but shoppers rights rather basic here in the Fatherland as compared to UK so it's not worth the stress of fighting. Microsoft doesn't respond to emails and their call-centre staff IMHO are useless.
I didn't try a manual install of the driver mentioned in the MS KB article because it's for a PS/2 keyboard.
Re the printer connection, a USB entry (a wierd but normal entry -- see screen shot in

http://h10025.www1.hp.com/ewfrf/wc/fastFaqLiteDocument?lc=da&cc=dk&dlc=da&docname=bpu01859)

appears only when the printer is connected to AC, so I don't think this can be my problem.
So as things stand, unless you have a brainwave, I reckon I'm going to have to carry on for ever unplugging and replugging my mouse/keyboard receiver after booting...

 

[kestrel1]

It does appear to be pointing at the hub that is causing your problem, however if everything worked OK in Linux with the hub connected it could be a driver problem.
Looking at the MS KB artical, it is stating that the driver is for USB & not PS2:
The "Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro" updated driver description is misleading. This driver is intended to be used solely with the Universal Serial Bus (USB) version of the Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro keyboard.
So I am wondering if this driver may be a better match than your current driver.
Are you considering a re-install of the system in the near future? If so any chance of upgrading to XP? Not saying that this will cure the problem, but even a re-install of 2K may help. As the mouse seems to work all the time, it really does seem to be driver related. Lets face it what have you got to loose, by trying the manual driver install?
I wondered if you may have said that you got it from somewhere like PC World, if so it wouldn't surprise me if they give real good info (haha)

 

[BritJim]

I'm back. Other bits of my life had to go on...
I'm hoping to avoid a re-install of Win2K and I've no interest in upgrading to XP, so I'd like to fix my problem if at all possible.
Re the MS KB article you reminded me about,

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q257729

states...

To remotely edit the registry:
1. From another Microsoft Windows NT-based or Windows 2000-based computer on the same network, run Regedt32.exe.
2. On the Registry menu, click Select Computer, and then type the computer name of the computer that has no keyboard or mouse functionality.
3. After you connect, click Hkey_Local_Machine on Remote_Computer_Name on the Window menu, and then navigate to the following key:
System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt
4. Double-click the Start:REG_DWORD:0x4 value, and then change it to 0x1.
5. Navigate to the following registry location:
System\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid
6. Double-click the Start:REG_DWORD:0x1 value, and then change it to 0x4.
7. Navigate to the following registry location:
System\CurrentControlSet\Enum\ACPI\PNP0303\4&2658d0a0&0
8. Click the 4&2658d0a0&0 key, click Permissions on the Security menu, and then grant Full Control permissions to the Everyone group. Click Apply.
9. Double-click the Service:REG_SZ:kbdhid value, and then change it to i8042prt.
10. Click the 4&2658d0a0&0 key, click Permissions on the Security menu, and then remove Full Control permissions from the Everyone group. Click Apply.
11. On the Registry menu, click Close.
12. On the Registry menu, click Exit.

My keyboard always works after unplugging and replugging its USB Receiver, so I was able to try the above steps locally. I can make the changes indicated in steps 3 - 6 but I can't follow step 7 because instead of
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Enum\ACPI\PNP0303\4&2658d0a0&0
I see only
HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Enum\ACPI\PNP0303\3&13c0b0c5&0
There is no other \PNP0303 entry and this \PNP0303\3&13c0b0c5&0 key has no Security menu.
Since I'm not an expert on the Registry, I stopped right there, left things as they were and am wondering what else to try.
Re your theory that the PSU might not be up to the job of powering the USB sockets, I've had the following thoughts:
- I've never seen any "USB Hub Power Exceeded" error messages at any time
- When I attach my PS/2 wired keyboard to the PC before booting, the USB keyboard works immediately Win2K has booted, as does the PS/2 kb
Do these remarks trigger any new thoughts at your end?
I recently downloaded SiSoftware "Sandra Pro Home" (

http://www.jaggedonline.com),

so in this quest for a solution if you'd like any reports this S/W can generate, just let me know!
As you know, in our previous exchanges I listed the various keyboard drivers I found using conventional means. Sandra revealed another under Driver Information: HID Keyboard Device, Keyboard.drv V3.10.00.103

 

[kestrel1]

Just had a look at the reg key & mine has a different number under PNP0303, however if you right click on the 3&13c0b0c5&0 folder you should have Permissions in the drop down list. Give full permissions to everyone from there & follow the rest of the steps. HID just stands for Human Interface Device. Have you tried a repair install of Windows 2K? This may sort things out in the registry.

 

[adelineadee]

I'm having the same poblem where my keyboard isn't working. Of course the mouse is just fine. This just happened randomly one day and I tried to fix it by moving the USB to another slot in the hard drive, that worked for the next few times, and now it doesn't work at all =[.

and what sux is that in order for me to log on I need to enter a password. It's already been a couple days and the whole thing is just so frustrating.

oh and btw, the batteries are new and all.

 

[kestrel1]

adelineadee
Have looked through all of the above posting's to see if any of it helps?

 

[BritJim]

Hallo again kestrel1...
You asked if I've tried a repair install of Win2k; I don't want to do this unless it's absolutely necessary because of the mass of stuff inc. updates I'd lose.

Having installed ERUNT, ERDNT & NTREGOPT from

http://www.larshederer.homepage.t-online.de/erunt/

I can now fairly easily revert to an earlier, good version of my Registry in case of trouble, so I decided to try the procedure recommended in the MS article (2 June posting in this thread).
FYI, according to the Lars Hederer, his program is also good for XP
Here's the procedure in brief (with my results in brackets):
A. Navigate to HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt
B. Change the Start REG_DWORD value from 0x4 to 0x1 (I found it already set to 0x1)
C. Navigate to HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\kbdhid
D. Change the Start REG_DWORD value 0x1 to 0x4 (I found it set to 0x00000001, so changed it to 4)
E. Navigate to HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Enum\ACPI\PNP0303\3&13c0b0c5&0
F. Change the Service REG_SZ value kbdhid to i8042prt (found it already set to i8042prt, but Win2K would not let me change it)
G. Exit Regedit
By trial and error I discovered that the value 0x1 in HKLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\i8042prt enables the PS/2 keyboard and the value 0x4 disables it. The same applies to the value in HKLM\...\kbdhid for the USB keyboard. Logically, therefore, I should do the opposite of what the article says and set kbdhid to 0x1 to let the USB keyboard work. By the same logic, I should change my existing
HKLM\...\Enum\ACPI\PNP0303\3&13c0b0c5&0 value to kbdhid, but as indicated in F above, I can't.
According to the MS KB article, when I right-click on my key ACPI\P0303\3&13c0b0c5&0 I should see a Permissions or Security option, but I see only the options Collapse, New, Find, Delete, Rename and Copy Key Name. This shouldn't matter since the point is only that I must be able to make the changes specified in the article. It's strange that I can't, because having checked via Control Panel, Users & Passwords, Advanced, Advanced User Management, Advanced, Users, I have the same rights as Administrator.
If you've any ideas on this "F" problem, pls advise!

Just for the record, here's a recap of my problem:
I run Win2K Pro, SP4 + all updates
I use a Microsoft Optical Wireless Desktop 700 (wireless keyboard + wireless mouse + shared USB Receiver)
I use Win2K default drivers (i.e. no MS Intellitype software, although I've tried loading various versions of this with no improvement)
New batteries and repositioning Receiver with respect to the keyboard bring no improvement
When keyboard isn't working, LED on Receiver nevertheless blinks in sync with key presses
Mouse always works
Keyboard works in BIOS
Keyboard works after booting into Linux from CD
Keyboard fails to work after booting into Win2K when any device --including a hub whether powered or not and whether with devices connected to it or not-- is plugged into any USB port
Device Manager shows all drivers OK even when keyboard is in "not working" mode (no yellow marks on any device)
As soon as the Receiver is unplugged and replugged into any USB port, the keyboard immediately starts working
If wired PS/2 keyboard plugged in before Win2K boots even if devices or hub were also plugged in beforehand, USB keyboard (and PS/2 keyboard) works

I recently installed the program What's Running (

http://www.whatsrunning.net)

which reports the following keyboard-related items:
--With PS/2 wired keyboard not connected and USB keyboard not working,:
Service: HID Input Service (hidserv.exe): running
Module: HID Input Service (HidServ): running
Driver: Keyboard HID Driver (Kbdhid): running
Driver: Keyboard Class Driver (Kbdclass): running
Driver: i8042 Keyboard and PS/2 Mouse Port Driver (i8042prt): stopped
--With PS/2 wired keyboard connected and USB wireless keyboard therefore working, as above except
Driver: i8042 Keyboard and PS/2 Mouse Port Driver (i8042prt): running

Curiously, the HID Keyboard Device driver Keyboard.drv V3.10.00.103 indicated by SiSoftware Sandra Pro Home (see 3 July posting) is not listed by What's Running

 

[kestrel1]

I would say this has got to be a registry or driver problem. I know it is a pain to do a clean install, that is why I suggested a repair install. This should eliminate the need to re-install all of your apps. I think most of the updates may need to be re-installed, which is a pain over dial up. I haven't repair installed 2K for a while & can't remember what gets removed. I normally do a clean install & get the updates after, but this is over a broadband connection.