Moving Department to another floor in the same building

[sxmont16]

Hello,

I am moving a department within my firm to a different floor in the same building. This will include approximately 12 users\computers\phones.

I am assuming the best way to this is run fiber lines from my main floor down to the new floor and introduce IP phones into the environment on the new floor. I know that I will also need to run the copper lines for the fax machines and the reception DSS system because I found out through my phone vendor that our current phone system can not handle an IP based DSS unit for the receptionist.

Is this the best solution? Am I missing anything?

Your help is greatly appreciated.

 

[LkEErie]

How many floors? How many pairs/phone? If you have to run copper anyway, 25 pair is as cheap as 5 4-pair cables, so how did IP become an issue? You're only talking 10 feet per floor and any digital set ought to be able to run up to 800 feet, so you're looking at a really tall building to be more than 800 feet from the main system.

LkEErie

 

[Dexman]

If the existing digital phone system fills the company's needs....simply running riser cables between floors (as suggested by LkEErie) would seem to be the way to go.

How many floors are there between the existing and new offices....and....what is make & model of the telephone system?

If it ain't broke, I haven't fixed it yet.

 

[sxmont16]

Main office is on 33rd and new office will be on 25th. So 8 floors.

I would like to have the infrastructure in place to support 20 phones.

You asked, "If you have to run copper anyway, 25 pair is as cheap as 5 4-pair cables, so how did IP become an issue?"

I do not know how to answer that question, How will my data traffic run without the fiber lines throughout the building. I was assuming that an intro to IP based phones would be a good idea.

Thanks for your questions and help.

 

[sxmont16]

what is make & model of the telephone system? Axxess system

 

[LkEErie]

IP takes bandwidth. You're only about 100' different from a phone on the same floor. An Axxess system digital phone works just as well at that distance. Now your phones are still the same and you're not fighting new or different technology.

If it were my job, I'd run a 50 pair cable between floors. It doesn't have to be anything better than Cat3 riser cable, in fact the riser is probably already there and call it a day. While I'm running that 50 pair, I'd pull in standard copper for the data. You're also well within 300 feet for ethernet runs.

LkEErie

 

[SYQUEST]

50 Pair copper for the phones and pre-terminated fiber for the data would be my choice.

....JIM....

 

[sxmont16]

Lkeerie - I was considering introducing the IP Phones due to the fact the Phone System is older and this would get me started on a migration path to move to a complete VOIP solution. Also, why would you not want to run the fiber between the floors? Wouldn't fiber be better than the Ethernet. Price is different, yes. But what about signal degrading and such.

SYQUEST: I am thinking along the same lines as you are, but what is "pre-terminated fiber." Or better question,why use it?

This is very useful knowledge right here. Thanks guys.

 

[SYQUEST]

Pre-terminated fiber cable has the connectors installed by the vendor or supplier. Someone like Fiber Instrument Sales, website: fiberinstrumentsales.com does this. You can order the fiber equipped with the connectors of choice also the type and length. It can be equipped with a pull boot, and is pretested. Ordering fiber this way can save lots of labor cost! Unless you like putting connectors on fiber. It takes lots of practice to get it right. Since they will build one to your specifications, to me that makes real sense.

With fiber, you always want to add some extra footage on both ends when measuring. It is better to have too much, than not enough, when it comes to fiber!

The Ethernet protocol is used on fiber too, not just copper.

....JIM....

 

[sxmont16]

Thank you for your feedback.

I am hoping to hear from LkEErie to get his point of view before I make an educated decision.

-Santo

 

[LkEErie]

Not on NCAA Thursday Congrats to OHIO. It was great to see Georgetown fans....how could this be happening to them

A move to another location in the same building that is less than 100 cable feet away is still least expensive in copper. You can run fiber, but I'm guessing you can't buy a fiber link for $20 which is what 100 feet of Cat 5E cable would cost. You already have to run a 25 or 50 pair cable, so why buy a fiber cable and media converters for such a short distance?

I'm doing a project now that requires 14-15 phones in a building about 300 cable feet from the main switch, or less than 200 feet via ethernet. The problem is the expense of PoE switches and IP phones, plus the IP card, is still more than 400' of 50 pair cable and 2 sets of 25 pair protectors (sparing 25 pairs).

The other thing I'd be a little wary of is the upgrade path of that particular InterTel system. Save your pure IP project for 2018 and beyond with the next big thing.

 

[sxmont16]

OK. Thank you all for considerations. Here is what I have my contractor pricing me for.

FORGET THE IP PHONES. I have them setup at some satellite offices and they do not work great.

Run 50 pair copper along with the 6 strands of fiber from the 33rd to the 25th floor. From the equipment room on the 25th floor to the offices, common areas, and any other place that needs a connection, I will be running cat6 cable.

The phones will still be digital and connect to the main office on the 33rd via the copper line run.

The data will feed off of the fiber.

How does this sound to you guys?

Your feedback is greatly appreciated.

 

[SYQUEST]

That sounds fine. If you are going to purchase a data switch get one that has fiber uplink capability (GBIC or SFP), that way you should not need to any media converters.

What data switches are you currently using?

....JIM....

 

[LkEErie]

No, the data will feed off the SWITCH you set up on the 25th floor. A Cat-6 cable run from the 33rd floor works just the same, same ethernet, same data.

 

[sxmont16]

I am pretty sure the way building management put it to me, it will be over 200ft of cable that will need to be run.

I have to double check that.

But, taking out the cost consideration, wouldn't the fiber be better and faster?

Also, SQQUEST, is there a problem with media converters? I may already have the switches necessary but I am not sure if they are fiber ready.

 

[LkEErie]

Are the phone closets not one on top of the other? No matter, it's still less than the 300 feet switch to switch. Marginally better, but faster than copper for what reason?

 

[sxmont16]

Lkeerie,

I am confused when you are saying "faster than copper".

The copper is for the phones, the fiber would be for the data, correct?

I'm a little confused now.

 

[Dexman]

For the digital phones, CAT3 cable would be fine. Fiber would be for data.

If it ain't broke, I haven't fixed it yet.

 

[SYQUEST]

You did not answer the data switch question.

Several reasons for not using media converters:
•Less hardware clutter
•No extra wall warts
•No double conversion of signals
•Less hardware to break
•Less energy usage

Another major advantage of fiber over copper for data is NO electronic interference!

....JIM....

 

[LkEErie]

The network card in a computer is rated either at 100 or 1000 Megabits. Cat6 cable is rated at 100 or 1000 Megabits and the switch is the same. So, fiber doesn't increase the speed of your network, but it will increase the distance. At distances of less than 300 feet, the only thing fiber will do is increase your cost, require extra hardware, and provide isolation of the switches in the event of a power or iinterference issue.

I didn't say I wouldn't use fiber, but at that distance I would be less likely to recommend it.