Motherboard version differences & compatibility

[goombawaho]

Is there any way to tell the differences and thus differences in compatibility between two motherboards with different versions.

For example - MS-7577 v. 2.1 vs. v. 4.1

If you need to replace an old board, you sometimes can't get the exact version match even on Ebay. So, how to know what the version differences might mean in terms of compatibility.

 

[rclarke250]

Not that I have been able to tell, unless the company decides to right a paper about it, and stick it on the support website for the model in question. Sometimes they will have a *note in the manual about board revisions, as pertaining to CPU or Memory compatibility, but that is all. As a general upgrade, it should be ok, as all of the chips should be the same in the chipset. May have a different chip for network,audio though.

 

[goombawaho]

My main concern would be that I could drop in a new mobo and fire it right up with the same hard drive (windows installation in tact) without any hassle.

I guess if Northbridge and Southbridge were the same then it wouldn't matter much. I just don't want to guarantee somebody "15 minute motherboard swap" and then have any windows issues after that.

It's a price estimate/time/billing issue.

 

[stduc]

I wouldn't guarantee anybody a 15 min mobo swap ever! I also wouldn't fire it up initially with the original hard drive.

Step 1 - replace mobo use gash HDD

Step 2 - Run diagnostics - especially memory diagnostics such as memtest and check you can at least run some flavour of Linux off a CD.

Whilst Step 2 - slave the original HDD and make an image backup.

Step 3 Install original HDD and be prepared for both driver issues and having to reauthenticate windows, hopefully over the internet but possibly via the telephone.

In the event it fails to boot then copy the image and boot that in a virtual machine and if that boots, image that and overwrite a spare HDD with that image and see if that will boot. You may need to use safemode as well.

I have had to do all of the above from time to time. It doesn't always work - I had to give up with a treasured Toshiba laptop. I have however had great success with the above methodology 98% of time. It's the image via a virtuasl machine that often cracks it as windows seems happy to revert to default drivers and then in the real machine install the hardware related drivers. So it will depend on things like VIA and onboard graphics or onboard ethernet being compatible between the boards driver wise.

Best of luck. Do let us know how it goes.

[navy]When I married "Miss Right" I didn't realise her first name was 'always'. LOL[/navy]

 

[goombawaho]

I don't understand your post at all^^^^ If the motherboard is the same model, it will be just plug and play with the old hard drive - I've done it before. If there are chipset differences it can be anything from install some new drivers to a no-boot situation.

It all depends. But I would expect that the same model motherboard even in different revisions would yield a swap and play solution.

A motherboard swap in 15 minutes is very do-able and as said will yield "walk away" results in terms of the windows installation if the same.

I was only wondering what PRECISE differences might have changed between versions.

 

[stduc]

^^^^^ You appear to be assuming the new mobo will be fault free. I am assuming the possibility it won't be and contingency planning. In order I don't lose the customers configurations or data. I can only conclude that when you build a new PC you assemble it, install windows and hand it over. I assemble it, test it for 24 hours, then install windows and only then hand it over.

[navy]When I married "Miss Right" I didn't realise her first name was 'always'. LOL[/navy]

 

[cdogg]

We're talking unseating video cards, PCI cards, RAM, and Power/LED/USB switch cables. Then there's the 8-10 screws holding the mobo in place. And don't forget the CPU which should be cleaned with alcohol before applying a new round of thermal paste. And finally, putting everything back once the new mobo is in place and firing it up with the original hard drive.

15 minutes, eh? That's impressive.


Carl

"Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test
a man's character, give him power." - Abraham Lincoln
[tab][navy]For this site's posting policies, click [/navy]here.

 

[rclarke250]

hmmm, depends on the system, and shape of said system. I would never tell a customer it will be done in 15 minutes, I like more general terms like an hour or so.

A lot of Dell/HP/Lenovo workstations are just a system board,ram,and cpu. NO other cards.

on a clean system, I've done it in 20 minutes, if nothing else had to be done, and we are not talking building a system from scratch.

If you want to burn in a system for 24 hours before loading windows, you can do it, my time is more valuable to me. Besides I only build systems for Family and Friends. I don't even burn in my gaming rig for 24 hours anymore, I find an hour or so of prime95 while eating dinner, is more than sufficient, and no, I don't overclock.

 

[cdogg]

Yeah, on a good day I've done it in about 20 minutes. But I'd never set that expectation for my customer though! That's just asking for it when you hit a snag and it ends up taking longer. I figure book time across the industry calls for an hour, whether it takes you half that time or not.

 

[rclarke250]

Never give a definite answer on time,never know when it will get you into trouble.

Nothing like 4am on a Sunday, and 911 dispatch is down, and you have 2 old IBM RISC servers spread across the floor, trying to swap parts to make one of them work, because the closest parts are 200 miles away through a blizzard. And the Director of Operations is standing over you going "How much longer is this going to take,Calls are being routed by hand." Still makes me shudder. My response was "A lot faster if you go get a cup of coffee."

I was there to replace a CD Rom drive, and the hdd experienced the sticktion problem that was common in the old 2.0-2.2 Gb SCSI hdd. We passed a millage to increase the funds for new technology for the Police and 911 that spring, and an 11 year old server was replaced.

 

[stduc]

Absolutely - any definitive promises always come back and bite you. Best I give these days is a probably! I have been known to reply "A lot slower with you bothering me all the time!". I'm not known for my diplomacy. LOL - But when I fix something it generally stays fixed.

I don't always do a long test - as rclarke250 says it's not as necessary as it was. But as for my time - what time? If I finish a PC in the late pm I will leave it on test overnight most likely. OK so it adds a few CO2's to the environment. I'm sorry about that.

[navy]When I married "Miss Right" I didn't realise her first name was 'always'. LOL[/navy]

 

[goombawaho]

Look - you guys are missing the point. Don't get hung up on the "15 minutes" thing. I'm thinking of it this way.

Estimate 1 given to customer:
30 minutes billable on site after purchasing/receiving new mobo. Assumes replacing mobo and booting up, walking away. No windows issues to mess with if the same exact board.

VS.

Estimate 2 given to customer:
Put in new mobo in 20 minutes but then "I don't know if we're going to have XP issues, so it could be 20 minutes total or a total reload of windows = 1.5 hours". I don't live in that fantasy land. The decision to order a board or tell them to get a new machine has to be made on concrete time estimates.

For older machines, you HAVE to have a time estimate which is valid because if the customer is paying by the hour, they can't afford and the old PC is not worth spending more than finding a cheap (same) motherboard replacement and then getting it in and get out in under 30 minutes.

Otherwise, it's better to replace the PC. So, you have to be accurate as to when you are going to be able to get them a cheap mobo and then get in and get out or somebody is going to lose money - you or them.

20 minutes is about right though - power connections to mobo, power connections to drives, usb headers, front audio, front panel connections, 6 screws, repeat.

 

[rclarke250]

you bill in 10 minute increments? Why not bill in full hour increments, take your time, and make sure it's done right? Unlike most I don't charge by the hour.

The company I work for does, and it is in 2 hour increments,plus parts,plus travel.

 

[stduc]

OK - well here's my take on your scenario

If you go for estimate 1 and it fails then customer has to pay that + whatever is then decided next. So I avoid this scenario. It's bad for business I find.

If you go for estimate 2 and it succeeds as per estimate 1 then customer gets a lower bill than the estimate = 1 happy customer. If on the other hand that fails totally then you are back to square 1. But I expect it to succeed. I only charge my time + callout not machine time. Failure is unlikely and bill should come in at or under estimate. However....

I aim to give the customer 2 choices. (more than 2 I find muddies the waters - so to speak). I never try doing something as "big" as even a HDD swap on site - always take away. (Its so embarrassing to find you can't get the hard drive out immediately for some silly reason on site). Then the charge is call out + my time - I don't charge total time - i.e when machine is running diags all by itself. So, in this case 1 choice given is estimate 2 with maybe a hint it won't come to that but may be less. I then add that a new machine may be a better option if it's more than 3 or 4 years old and give that advantages of going new and then price that plus optional additions at customers choice such as attempting a clone (no promises, but if it works customer had new hardware and a system they are used to with no setting up required on their part) or a simple data retrieve and customer re-installs all software (cheaper).

One thing you don't mention - is getting the CPU off and re-fitted. That can be a real pain at times, especially cleaning off the old heat sink pad or gunk. If the machine is more than 4 years old - especially if it is a single threaded model of CPU - I recommend a new machine. It's probably slow, needs more RAM, the PSU is getting tired - etc etc.

As to my timing estimates.

Rebuild hardware 1 hour
Test 15 mins
Reinstall O/S 15 mins
Clone 1 hour
Data recovery 15 mins
+ callout fee

Remember that's my time - if O/S takes 3 hours whilst I do other work and don't notice a prompt - no problem! If clone takes a whole day again no problem. I don't reckon to spend even an hour 'playing' with it - but I charge an hour. Sometimes I admit I lose out on that one - LOL But then again customer is so impressed with a new PC that is 100% their old PC but running so much quicker - it's worth it and you can be sure they come back. So when do they get the machine retured? THAT depends on my workload and their need - LOL But depending on various factors 2 hours to week. Average - say 36 hours? I am guessing though.

Hope this helps?

 

[goombawaho]

I do 15 minute increments.

StDuc - I've got to study your post before I can digest it. But one thing - I NEVER take off site if at all possible. Liability for the hardware and most importantly the data. Plus people really don't like giving their machines up and I don't blame them. I mean how many people have tax information on there, "interesting" photos, private documents, etc. It's like letting someone borrow your diary.

I try not to screw people so if they're hard core about replacing an old dead mobo, I take the burden upon myself to "guarantee" that it will be so much. Never gotten the shaft yet and the reason is that I make sure I get the same board which gives me a 99% chance of plug and play and walk away.

 

[cdogg]

All of this reminds me of why customer service is so important. If you get into the habit of low-balling your estimates and tacking on more time at the end, customers in the long run are going to be less inclined to do business again. It's usually better to overestimate than underestimate in the eyes of the customer. But hey, it's your business model to decide what to do with!

Getting back to the point of the thread (imagine that)...

When it comes to motherboards, version numbers usually pertain to the BIOS revision that was shipped which may contain different preset default values. In rarer occasions, it may also relate to a difference with an integrated component (such as audio or ethernet) - perhaps a different manufacturer or being in a different location onboard. But in all those cases, none should prevent the original hard drive from booting up with the new mobo. The main factor there is usually the CPU which isn't changing in your situation.

 

[edfair]

I do have an advantage. Most of my critical stuff is on older technology machines that I refitted to fit the customer's needs and purchased enough stock to spare out for a couple of years. When I suggest a M/B swap it is generally a 15 minute job with the Dells. One latch for the I/O release and 2 cables to get to the M/B, one screw and 3 cables to free the M/B. Fan and airduct have to come out.
It also helps that these are Unix and the file systems clean up nicely on their own most of the time.

But when things go bad, they can really go bad, into the 6 plus hour area.

Ed Fair
Give the wrong symptoms, get the wrong solutions.

 

[goombawaho]

Well - back to the original question. As I said, I guess if chipsets are the same, BIOS differences shouldn't be a big factor. I just wish there was an easy way to see what the differences are between mobo XXXXXX version 4 and version 4.1

It would take so much searching as to be maddening.

Another issue is people that are so stubborn as to want to fix up a 2004 vintage Walmart computer, which is exactly what this thread is about. But I talked them into a new HP - $300 not bad and runs pretty good.

 

[stduc]

Yeah - it would be nice if manufacturers would publish change documents. But the trend seems to be for less and less information. Minimalism rules - grrrrrrrrrrrr

I take your point, but the question of data confidentiality has yet to arise. I must have an host face - LOL As for liability - that's what one pays insurance for.

I know what you mean about keeping old stuff running. I have a customer I'm still after many moons trying to wean off WP3 - ROFL

[navy]When I married "Miss Right" I didn't realise her first name was 'always'. LOL[/navy]

 

[goombawaho]

I must have an host face" - Ha ha!! Typo

You know what they say - honest face, evil mind.

"that's what one pays insurance for" - what insurance do you speak of? I don't need no stinkin' insurance.

If I ever need to take a machine off site, I generally leave the hard drive behind. You could get accused of identify theft if something happened, especially with the number of people having tax records on their machines (with all the info you would need).