(More) Workgroup connection problems 9

[SnailUK]

I have a problem with access to one of two computer connected via a workgroup network. It has been working fine but suddenly stopped. The only thing I have done, apart from spy ware cleanup is to un-install Norton System Works 2003 and install Zone Alarm.
Both workgroup computers are visible in My network places and PC1 (running XP Pro) can access PC2 (running XP home), however PC2 cannot access PC1 – I get the message:

\\PC1 is not available. You might not have permission to use this network resource. Contact the administrator of this service to find out if you have permissions.

Access is denied.

I have read through most of the (large number) of previous posts on this subject and have so far carried out/checked the following, all to no avail:

•Under TCP/IP Properties for the Network Connection, Advanced, WINS tab, disable 'use LMHOSTS' and check to 'enable NetBIOS over TCP/IP'

•HKEY_LOCAL_MACHINE\SYSTEM\CurrentControlSet\Services\Browser\Parameters IsDomainMaster=FALSE on PC2 and TRUE on PC1

•identical workgroup name, different computer names
•something shared on both machines
•real passwords, no blank or empty passwords used
•all usernames and passwords duplicated on all machines
• The only anti-virus/firewall I have running is Zone alarm with anti virus. Both the network addresses are listed in the “trusted” area.

•I think Simple file sharing disabled on both machines, but not sure how to check this.

•I have downloaded and run the Windsock Fix program.

I could put up with this and just use the access from PC1 to share files, however I have a briefcase set up to synchronise my Outlook mail account and this will not work now.

Can anybody suggest anything else I can try please?
Thanks in advance....

 

[fenix]

A few ideas that have worked for me with similar workgroup problems, (but it was between xp pro and 98 machines). Maybe one of these will work for you, especially if you use an inexpensive home router.

1. even though my machines could ping each other and had the correct setups and protocols installed, one machine (98)didn't show up in Network Places. And trying to open another machine that WAS there, gave me that password error message that you referred to.

The fix was to unplug my router ...I belive it lets the cache drain in the router if there is data 'hung up in there'. After I did that, all my computers could see and access each other. This just happened a few hours ago and I was pleased that it worked.

2. another time, deleting and resetting the password to the same password in the workgroup, on the computer that was having trouble being the client(98). Resetting the password on xp pro enabled the client to now access the server without getting that password box.

 

[linney]

307874 - HOW TO: Disable Simplified Sharing and Password-Protect a Shared Folder in Windows XP

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;307874&FR=1&PA=1&SD=HSCH

304040 - Description of File Sharing and Permissions in Windows XP

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;304040&FR=1&PA=1&SD=HSCH

Networking.

Simple File Sharing- enabled

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp/filesharing.htm

Simple File Sharing - disabled

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp_filesharing/index.htm

 

[SnailUK]

Thanks for the ideas and apologies for taking so long to respond.

I have not had time to try all yet but am working through them! No luck so far I'm afraid.

I'll keep you posted.

 

[koala15]

My two cents worth:

1) Check to see if there are any unused network connections (for example: a dial-up connection) - if there are remove it (them).

2) Try making the Guest account (on both machines) a member of the Administrators group. (On the XP:Home PC you will have to boot it into safe mode to do that). I had a similar problem to you and this fixed it BUT in a corporate environment it is a bad idea. If this change fixes the problem, then undo that change on one machine and test again. If it fails then thats your problem (but not the solution). If it works, then put Guest back into the Admin group and undo that change on the other machine and test.

Best of luck ... Greg.

"Life is full of learning, and then there is wisdom"

 

[AGOULD]

I have just experienced a similar problem with my Dell laptop running XP Pro. It was fine until yesterday and then for some unexplained reason access is denied to the shares on the other PCs, plus from them to the laptop. However, it is possible to access the shares if the local ip address rather than the computer name is used. I assume there must be some DNS problem with the local network, but don't know how to resolve this.

Andrew

 

[cwyman]

I too am experiencing these problems between computer that were working fine the day before and now are no longer working and nothing notable was done.

I suppose a MS critical update could have been installed, but it is hard to say.

I have read all of the links posted by linney and none of them seem to be a problem. Everything has been setup according to the documentation and yet still will not map a drive or see anything in workgroup computers.

Another thing that did fix one of my computer situations was reinstalling the NIC drivers.

 

[linney]

Might be worth trying System Restore to go back a day or two.

 

[AGOULD]

Thanks - rolled back the day before and no change. Tried a couple of days before that and the restore failed.

However I have found the answer provided via CIX (

http://www.cix.co.uk).

I have modified the HOSTS file on each PC so that each IP address is mapped to the respective computer name. It is a NETBIOS problem - the system doesn't know which IP address is mapped to which name. I also need to modify the LMHOSTS file but need to go off and do some reading about NETBIOS and Windows namespaces. Who knows what triggered the problem, but I suspect that it has revealed problems in the network that have not been manifested before.

Anyway, for all those who have this problem modify the HOSTS file (needs to be the same on each PC) in the first place and your problem should be resolved! You will also probably need to modify the LMHOSTS too.

BFN

Andrew

PS One benefit of having experienced the problem is finding this group!

 

[koala15]

Andrew,

WELL DONE!!!

"Life is full of learning, and then there is wisdom"

 

[SnailUK]

Andrew,

Well done from me too! This has turned into quiet a post and will hopefully find it's way into the FAQ section!

However, can I be dim and ask... How do you modify the HOSTS file, where is it and what do I have to do? Likewise for LMHOSTS if I have to mod that as well.

Thanks again to one and all.

Steve

 

[pweegar]

SnailUK:
The easiest way to find the Host and LMHost files is simple do a search of your boot drive. Try *host*, which would be the easiest. Once you find each file, note it's folder. Go to that folder and find the file. You MAY need to change the properties of each file, as they may be read only (Right click on the file, Go to Properties and make sure the read-only attribute is NOT checked). Then you can open the file with your favorite text editor (I prefer wordpad.) The host file (and LMHost file also) should have examples of what need to be entered (i.e. IP Address and computer name).

 

[peterocc]

pweegar,

Never change the properties of the Host of lmhost file.

The easiest way to access two files is to go to C:\Windows (or Winnt)\System32\Drivers\etc

Inside, you will find the lmhosts and host files. Right click and select open. Use notepad to edit them and remember to save before exiting.

The Hosts file is like an address book. When you type an address like

http://www.tek-tips.com

into your browser, the Hosts file is consulted to see if you have the IP address, or "telephone number," for that site. If you do, then your computer will "call it" and the site will open. If not, your computer will ask your ISP's (internet service provider) computer for the phone number before it can "call" that site. Most of the time, you do not have addresses in your "address book," because you have not put any there. Therefore, most of the time your computer asks for the IP address from your ISP to find sites.

Windows 2000 and Microsoft® Windows NT® versions 4.0 and 3.5x provide name resolution services for both NetBIOS computer names and Domain Name System (DNS) host names on TCP/IP networks. For information about name resolution through WINS, and LMHost files, see "Windows Internet Name Service" in this book. For information about name resolution through DNS, see "Windows 2000 DNS" in this book.

Using the LMHOSTS file is one method of name resolution for NetBIOS names in TCP/IP networks. Depending on the computer's configuration, the following methods might also be used to resolve NetBIOS names on a TCP/IP network:

• NetBIOS name cache

• IP subnet broadcasts

• WINS NetBIOS name server

• DNS name resolution

Hope this information helps.

Peter

 

[cwyman]

I have a question. Why would this happen if you didn't do anything to change the local network configuration?

Why do I all of a sudden have to go in and add entries into my LMHOSTS file?

I had one computer where the problem is somehow software/OS related. This one particular computer can get to the Internet and print fine, but can't map a drive, but others can map to him. If I reinstall his NIC drivers he can then access his mapped drives. If he reboots his computer we have to reinstall his NIC drivers each time in order for him to map. Now prior to this event, say around July 8th he was working just fine, but on July 9th he could no longer gain access to his local network unless he reloads his drivers every time he boots.

I have another DSL router peer to peer network between 2 computers where the exact mapping problem is occurring, but reinstalling his NIC drivers did not fix the problem. They have been having problems on the exact same date.

Two completely different networks from two completely different sides of the state and we are having issues? Sounds too coincidental to me.

Anyway, I hope someone finds a good solid explanation of this issue. I'm not saying that adding an entry into LMHOSTS or HOSTS isn't the answer, I'm just asking why is that the answer and not something else?

Linney, I haven't read your links yet, but rest assured I will and perhaps I will find the answer there.

Feeling Perplexed

 

[AGOULD]

I'm pleased to hear that the post re the HOSTS/LMHOSTS has been useful. peterocc has just given a concise explanation of their roles.

I've done a little more research and I would refine the information I have given previously. If you want to ping hostnames e.g. PC1 modify the LMHOSTS not HOSTS file. The hosts translates IP addresses to hostnames - your PC checks this first before interrogating a DNS server. The LMHOSTS is used to resolve hostnames with IP addresses across a local Windows network (NETBIOS). So if you have 3 PCs with IP addresses 192.168.1.1, 192.168.1.2, 192.168.1.3 the LMHOSTS file for each PC would be:

192.168.1.1 PC1 #PRE
192.168.1.2 PC2 #PRE
192.168.1.3 PC3 #PRE

The #PRE preloads the entries on startup.

There are other options, including the ability to store a common file on a server so that if the address change only one file needs changing.

Remember that if you have changed the HOSTS file already, revert to the original and then modify the LMHOSTS.

I'm write this up as a FAQ if requested, unless someone with more knowledge wishes to do so.

I share cwyman's concern as to why the network should operate one day but not the next. The person who advised me said that any number of small and apparently insignificant changes might have caused the problem. I wonder if a recent Windows hotfix may be the culprit. However I now understand how the network operates far better than before, and can ping, nbtstat etc hostnames (e.g. PC1 etc) when before this did not work properly. I therefore consider the experience positive (but it did not seem like it at the time!).

HTH

Andrew

 

[bcastner]

1. Permanently disable XP's built-in Internet Connection Firewall on local area network connections -- it's for use only on a direct modem connection to the Internet. Disable and un-install all other firewall programs while troubleshooting. When un-installing a firewall program, use the un-install procedure provided by the manufacturer .
Don't use Control Panel | Add or Remove Programs, which might not completely un-install it.

For more information, see:

Windows XP Internet Connection Firewall

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp/ic_firewall.htm

2. Use only one protocol for File and Printer Sharing. If the network needs more than one protocol, unbind File and Printer Sharing from all but one of them. Details here:

Windows XP Network Protocols

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/xp/network_protocols.htm

3. Make sure that NetBIOS over TCP/IP is enabled on all computers.
Details here:

Enable NetBIOS Over TCP/IP (NetBT)

http://www.practicallynetworked.com/sharing/troubleshoot/netbt.htm

4. Run "ipconfig /all" on XP and look at the "Node Type" at the beginning of the output. If it says "Peer-to-Peer" (which should actually be "Point-to-Point") that's the problem. It means that the computer only uses a WINS server, which isn't available on a peer-to-peer network for NetBIOS name resolution.

If that's the case, run the registry editor, open this key:

HLM\System\CurrentControlSet\Services\Netbt\Parameters

and delete these values if they're present:

NodeType
DhcpNodeType

Reboot, then try network access again.

If that doesn't fix it, open that registry key again, create a DWORD value called "NodeType", and set it to 1 for "Broadcast" or 4 for "Mixed".

For details, see these Microsoft Knowledge Base articles:

Default Node Type for Microsoft Clients

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;160177

TCP/IP and NBT Configuration Parameters for Windows XP

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;314053

Source: Steve Winograd

 

[koala15]

AGOULD and bcastner,

Thanks for the info.

A star to you both.

"Life is full of learning, and then there is wisdom"

 

[bcastner]

While I am sympathetic to AGOULD's resolution of the issue, there is no reason to abandone Netbios through Broadcast to resolve hostnames, and a very powerful reason not to adopt LMHOSTS -- most LANs depend on DHCP to assign dynamic addresses, and LMHOSTS does not support this.

What nobody has suggested above is to use XP tools to test for general Network issues, Master Browser issues, and TCP/IP connectivity issues.

Consider before leaping to LMHOSTS:

#1. Use the Network Diagnostic tools of XP.

The current tool set now includes four primary additions to the Windows XP operating system. These are the Network Diagnostics Web Page, the Network Connections Support Tab, the Network Connections Repair Link, and the Task Manager networking tab.

http://www.microsoft.com/technet/prodtechnol/winxppro/maintain/netdiag.mspx

In addition, there is a stand-alone command line tool, netdiag.exe. To install this tool, (found on the XP Pro CD under Support\Tools) see:

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=/directory/worldwide/en-gb/utility.asp

The network diagnostic tool can then be called from Help and Support (as explained in the article above), or directly:

Start, Run, netsh diag gui
(for the standalone tool for Support\Tools): Start, Run, netdiag.exe

Choose all the options, and let the program test your connections to the LAN, the internet, and your email servers.

#2. Test for, and repair Winsock corruption.

The testing process and one repair method is discussed in MS KB

http://support.microsoft.com/?kbid=811259

An alternative repair is suggested in faq779-4625

#3. Test for and repair TCP/IP Connectivity issues.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=kb;en-us;Q314067

#4. Troubleshoot Master Browser isssues.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;EN-US;Q188305

#5. If you post a problem on this Forum, be certain to include any error messages from Event Viewer, or any specific error provided from Network Places or the NET command.

Top Reasons for Network Browsing Issues:
. Firewall settings.
The native ICF firewall (unless configured), and nearly all commercial or freeware firewalls (unless configured) will block network browsing. Beware of "hidden" firewalls in Antivirus programs such as PC-Illan.
. Improper Services Settings.
Unless you are in a Domain setting, the DNS client service should not be enabled. In a mixed-OS setting with Win2k or XP clients, you likely should disable the Computer Browsesr service.
. Netbios over TCP/IP not enabled on all clients. Client for Microsoft Networking and File and Printer Sharing not enabled.
. Incorrect Node Type (see my earlier post above)
. The use of blank or empty passwords without having made special provisions for their use.
. Improper Workgroup naming or settings; improper worstation naming or settings; improper Share naming or settings.

 

[koala15]

Further to bcastner's "Top Reasons for Network Browsing Issues:" is his last item, namely: improper Share naming or settings.

Within the "settings" area is the situation where the share itself has a permission scheme at odds with the permission scheme of the folder to which that share points.

"Life is full of learning, and then there is wisdom"

 

[AGOULD]

Very interesting and useful posts from bcastner. I checked the laptop and found the node type was peer-to-peer so it was looking for a WINS server. This would explain why nbtstat -a reported nothing resolved by broadcast by the laptop. I added the NodeType DWORD key (1) and it works - fantastic!

All the other systems reported NodeType = Unknown. There is an MS KB article about this (Q310570) that refers to an EnableProxy key in the registry, though I couldn't find this so left it. I have changed NodeType to 1 so all are now set to Broadcast.

I did try the network diagnostic tools, which reported no errors when the firewall (Norton) was disabled, so it did not help resolve the problem.

Incidentally I found that one software firewall (PC Cillin) prevented other PCs pinging it but you could ping the PC itself by name, whereas another (Norton) would block pinging the host but other PCs could ping it.

The main problem I have found with trying to resolve the problem is finding the relevant information in one place. There are plenty of MS KBs and various web sites have some of the information, but not all. Unless you are a networking specialist much of the terminology is confusing.

My brief summary of the advice I have received from this and other forums, together with my experience over the last few days (and nights) would be:

Turn off all software firewalls
Run the network diagnostic tool
Check the NodeType
Use the LMHOSTS if necessary - this is probably fine for small networks like mine

It does seem to me though that XP networking is not as easy as it should be if you have to play with registry entries!

Andrew