Modem vs. High Speed

[Thadeus]

JayMunda's post inspired this question, but I didn't want to highjack his thread:
When developing a commercial website, should you really have to take into account those with dial-up access?

I know it is nice to develop to the lowest common denominator, but when selling Flash Web Development in $10K chunks, can't one make the assumption that serious buyers are going to have a high speed connection?

~Thadeus

 

[alexhu]

Well being one that is still using dialup, until my Broadband connection is live, I will not use any site that takes ages to load.

However, having said that, there are a lot of sites I can use, my bank for example, where I don't have to wait for the whole page to load before starting to use the site.

Its sites with 'intros' with no means to skip that don't get my vote

Alex

 

[DoubleD]

Thadeus,
For commercial purposes, my initial reaction is to say that you should not be required to account for dial-up.

Then I think about how software development changed as computer capabilities changed, and I reconsidered.
When computers first came out, all programming needing to be as concise and efficient as possible, due to limited resources.
Then memory became cheap and computers got faster. All of a sudden, programmers could be sloppy. Computers made up for efficiency with faster processors and conciseness with mega memory. Eventually, their was a realization that we needed to get back to quality programming.
I'm not saying you have to take dial-up into account, but it will help developers design more efficiently if they have to consider minimal bandwidth. Just my thoughts.

I am what I am based on the decisions I have made.

DoubleD

 

[alexhu]

DoubleD

What do you mean by "For commercial purposes"?

And are you based in the USA ?

Alex

 

[SQLSister]

I think that if the web site is targeted to businesses in most cases you will not need to consider bandwidth unless your customers are located in an area where many companies are still not on high speed connections. If the web site is targeted to consumers it should definitely account for the the low bandwidth problem.

Questions about posting. See faq183-874

 

[Thadeus]

Well since I asked the question with the wording "commercial purposes" I will explain my meaning: A website with the intention of selling some item or service.

Non-Commercial purposes would be blog sites, forum sites such as Tek-Tips, inspirational sites, online bio-type pages (who-am-i, pics, opinions)

~Thadeus

 

[Stella740pl]

Thadeus,

How do you classify bank sites, utility sites, public free e-mail, search engine sites?

I tend to agree with SQLSister. Look who is your target audience, medium to large businesses, or individual consumers and mom-and-pop shops. For the former, you don't have to consider bandwidth. For the latter or mixed, you definitely should.

I mean, if my credit card bank or electrical company (which obviously are selling their services to me) urging me to pay their bills on line, they should provide the means for me, as an individual customer, to do so in a reasonable time, as I am most likely to have an older computer and a dial-up connection.

Stella

 

[Thadeus]

I am not in disagreement. I have a business site that sells directly to brides-to-be. I definately design to the dial-up crowd. (A look at the domains some of my clientele e-mail from tells me that they are not all the most tech-savvy.)

However the site mentioned in JayMunda's post sells Flash web development and a suggestion offered was to use animated gif's instead of Flash because the Flash was slow over dial-up. I disagree with this suggestion, but wanted to take the temperature of the community.

 

[lgarner]

Plus, I'd really question a company that sells Flash but doesn't use it.

If your site needs high bandwidth, with lots of interaction or graphics, then that's what it needs. The key is this: You may shut out the dialup users, but only you can decide if their loss is acceptable.

Being efficient in site design is never a bad thing, and I'd design for the widest audience possible, within reason..

 

[DoubleD]

Like alexhu, I am also still using dial-up. I live in the US, but far enough out in the country that no form of broad band (other than satellite - $80/month) is available.

I am in full agreement with SQLSister. If you are targeting anyone other than large businesses, you have to account for dial-up.

What I meant by commercial purposes were large scale, big business, corporate sites; not everyday, consumer driven sites.

I am what I am based on the decisions I have made.

DoubleD

 

[Stella740pl]

However the site mentioned in JayMunda's post sells Flash web development and a suggestion offered was to use animated gif's instead of Flash because the Flash was slow over dial-up. I disagree with this suggestion, but wanted to take the temperature of the community.

Well, on this one I agree with you. If your sell Flash web development, you got to give your prospective patrons a little taste of what you are selling. Besides, the potential buyers are not likely to be individual customers with slow connections.

 

[DoubleD]

Does anyone know of an unbiased study showing percentage of home dial-up users vs broadband connections?

Sometimes I think it's taken for granted that everyone is using broadband just because it's available and faster. I'd be curious what the numbers really are.

I am what I am based on the decisions I have made.

DoubleD

 

[SQLSister]

I agree that his site should use Flash, but he should look at ways to optimize the Flash so that it runs in the least time possible. Part of what I would hire a Flash developer for is becasue it takes an expert to make things more efficient. Anybody can make an inefficent, ugly Flash app. I might put something that is simple and elegant that loads quickly on the home page and then put the more complex samples on other pages that people can go to if they want to see them. But at least this way the potential customers can get to the contact information no matter what their connection speed is. But it is true that most people interested in buying Flash services will have broadband.

Questions about posting. See faq183-874

 

[dilettante]

The other thing to consider is processing horsepower.

I consider PDF to be the "speed bump of the Internet" because of its pokey characteristics, especially with a slower machine on a slower connection. You can almost hear the machine "gear down" to handle a PDF. Flash ranks down there somewhere as the "pothole of the Internet" for much the same reason. Pages with embedded Flash ads are a nuisance in particular, resulting in erratic page scrolling as well as poor general performance.

You really need to consider your audience. A lot of commercial users are lucky to be running machines much over 500 Mhz even today even with high speed access. I'm often amazed how many run 800x600 or even 640x480 resolution due to vision that is fading with age - and that on 17" monitors. Another factor to consider.

 

[alexhu]

DoubleD - some investigation on the net shows these numbers for the UK (2003)

Broadband 4 million
Total Internet 18 million

but whether that includes company connections I don't know

Alex

 

[DoubleD]

alexhu,
So if 78% of web users (in the UK) are not using broadband, how can a developer conscionably consider not planning for dial-up users?

I am what I am based on the decisions I have made.

DoubleD

 

[Onyxpurr]

If you are selling Flash then your customers are most likely those with a faster connect.

You definately have to take your customers into account, but you can't sell a product they can't sample.

I've gotten into arguments with my husband over this one. He goes to the Art Institute and they tell their students NOT to program for dial-up (but then again their focus is Flash and intensive programs.)

At Devry (where the focus is html, asp, java) we were taught to think about customer and try always to account for dial-up. Most people I know at work (with the exception of the tech obsessed) have dial-up.

 

[alexhu]

DoubleD - of course, did I say otherwise ?

Alex

 

[DoubleD]

alexhu,
I definitely think you're taking the right approach by asking. It's just my personal opinion that there seems to be an assumption that everyone is using broadband. IT has a tendency to develop to the standard of the most capable technology available. We sometimes forget that our customers are not necessarily using that technology, need that technology, or are willing to spend to buy that technology.
At an additional $60/month, I'm willing to wait for most pages and images to download. But there are some sites that take so long that I won't visit them anymore. I'm sure I'm not the only one that does this, so businesses are losing money because they're forgetting who their customers are.

Ok, rant over.

I am what I am based on the decisions I have made.

DoubleD

 

[GoddessOfTech]

Some have stated that if a company is selling flash design that they should have their site done in flash.

I would agree, however, the site everyone brought up is Jaymunda's and I have a little input.

This site sells more than flash websites. In fact, they sell entire corporate identity packages. If they sold ONLY flash sites I would say yes, build it entirely in flash. There is some flash on the site and it is nice and I do not find it slow to load but also I am on broadband. It may be reasonable to have, like was suggested, a small flash intro (that can be skipped) or...the choice to see the site in flash (after the home page loads). This way they are using their site as a flash example but only if a person would like to see what they have to offer for flash.

Other company's may be interested because of print and could care less whether or not the site is in flash.

It has been hit on several times to take your users into account and I think it is very irresponsible if a company does not. If a company caters to large clients...huge corps and does not want smaller accounts then they should take advantage of their target audience who most likely has broadband. But if the company sells a range of products and also wants to attract those who most likely do not have broadband you cannot leave them out of the loop by pissing them off because your website takes ten minutes to load.



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"It's become appallingly clear that our technology has surpassed our humanity." --Albert Einstein