Work in school district, which translates to not a lot of money. We have several buildings that over the last few years have slowly been wired with cat5/5e and now cat6. The ethernet runs directly from switch to computer, no patch panel or wall jack. I have received a small amount of money to do some wiring. My question is, is it better to keep the mix of cat 5/5e and 6 in a building and use some of the money for patch panel or wall jacks or have the building completely wired with cat6.
Tek-Tips is the largest IT community on the Internet today!
Members share and learn making Tek-Tips Forums the best source of peer-reviewed technical information on the Internet!
-
Congratulations SkipVought on being selected by the Tek-Tips community for having the most helpful posts in the forums last week. Way to Go!
mixing cat5/5e and cat 6
- Thread starter pmazz
- Start date
Servamatic
IS-IT--Management
My first question, do you plan on actually setting up a gigabit speed network?
If not, I would stick with Cat 5e. If on the other hand you do intend to use gigabit, I would spend the extra money to install Cat 6 on new runs. Upgrading the Cat 5, not Cat 5e would also be a consideration, but again only if you truly want gigabit.
Not sure what you meant by..."use some of the money for patch panel or wall jacks" but I wouldn't spend money upgrading those if you don't plan on upgrading the cable.
Hope this helps, bottom line, if I was in your shoes, and NOT going to gigabit, I wouldn't waste my money on Cat 6.
If not, I would stick with Cat 5e. If on the other hand you do intend to use gigabit, I would spend the extra money to install Cat 6 on new runs. Upgrading the Cat 5, not Cat 5e would also be a consideration, but again only if you truly want gigabit.
Not sure what you meant by..."use some of the money for patch panel or wall jacks" but I wouldn't spend money upgrading those if you don't plan on upgrading the cable.
Hope this helps, bottom line, if I was in your shoes, and NOT going to gigabit, I wouldn't waste my money on Cat 6.
jimbopalmer
Programmer
converting the current wiring to have patch panels and wall jacks rather than bending the solid cable, will be the better way to upgrade, in my honest opinion
I tried to remain child-like, all I acheived was childish.
I tried to remain child-like, all I acheived was childish.
Servamatic
IS-IT--Management
It never ceases to amaze me how easy it is to miss details upon first read....Maybe I should read these early in the morning, instead of late at night....lol
I agree with jim, I would certainly install the patch panels and wall jacks on your cables.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
I agree with jim, I would certainly install the patch panels and wall jacks on your cables.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
franklin97355
Technical User
I agree with both of them. I would give the wall jacks priority and then the patch panels if you have enough money left. I also work for a school district and know how tight money is right now. Good Luck.
davemiller
Technical User
Install patch panels and stick with the existing CAT5,E, and 6. You don't need to go Gig, and you can still set your switch ports(relating to CAT5,E) to a specific speed if necessary, ie; 10/100/1000 pending switch capability.
I design and manage large corporate LAN upgrades, and only in unique high demand R&D situations are we even considering Gig to the desktop. A wire speed switch with 100 MB ports will serve you well.
When they install the panels be sure the lines are tested and verified. Sometimes jacks in the office are older CAT3, or punch downs are not twisted adequately and then your presumed CAT5+ installation may not perform up to spec!
I design and manage large corporate LAN upgrades, and only in unique high demand R&D situations are we even considering Gig to the desktop. A wire speed switch with 100 MB ports will serve you well.
When they install the panels be sure the lines are tested and verified. Sometimes jacks in the office are older CAT3, or punch downs are not twisted adequately and then your presumed CAT5+ installation may not perform up to spec!
- Thread starter
- #10
ill check on the grant for you it may take a week or so though
I don't work for the school district Im just the preffred vendor I will be talking to my guy over there next week and Ill ask him for the name of the grant I had the site bookmarked at one point but I cant find it now
I don't work for the school district Im just the preffred vendor I will be talking to my guy over there next week and Ill ask him for the name of the grant I had the site bookmarked at one point but I cant find it now
Not sure on the boundaries of any of these...
(I think you have to have an up to date tech plan, and submit forms on time)
I agree with the face plates then patch panels. Once terminations are complete see about getting it tested as well. Make sure runs aren't longer than they should be (328ft including patch cords) and terminations are correct. Poorly wired networks cause a lot of headaches. It leaves you wondering if it's a problem with the computer or the wire.
If cost is a factor and you need cheap patch cables addirondack makes them dirt cheap. I hate to recommend cheap crap though...
(I think you have to have an up to date tech plan, and submit forms on time)
I agree with the face plates then patch panels. Once terminations are complete see about getting it tested as well. Make sure runs aren't longer than they should be (328ft including patch cords) and terminations are correct. Poorly wired networks cause a lot of headaches. It leaves you wondering if it's a problem with the computer or the wire.
If cost is a factor and you need cheap patch cables addirondack makes them dirt cheap. I hate to recommend cheap crap though...
I concur. Add jacks and then patch panels as money permits. Sneak in some wire management when you can. When cable does need to be added or upgraded, use hi grade 5e or 6 cable. Depending on the grade of the existing Cat5e, I'd leave it unless it has problems.
One thing to consider would be if you are thinking a large portion of the existing cable is bad, not just substandard, but doesn't work, you might consider just leaving it as it is, and add the new cables and terminate those in the proper manor, not wasting the time and effort on the old stuff. Just a though.
Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay
One thing to consider would be if you are thinking a large portion of the existing cable is bad, not just substandard, but doesn't work, you might consider just leaving it as it is, and add the new cables and terminate those in the proper manor, not wasting the time and effort on the old stuff. Just a though.
Justin T. Clausen
Physical Layer Implementation
California State University, Monterey Bay
Servamatic
IS-IT--Management
Don't forget, according to the 2002 NEC you must removed abandoned cables.
Fire and safety issues are the reason why, in case you were wondering.
What is an abandoned cable?
The NEC considers a cable abandoned unless it is terminated on BOTH ends.
Yes, I know there is an exception if you tag it for future use, but don't count on that exception being in the 2005 code.
As installation companies, and installers, we need to incorporate labor into our MAC jobs to cover this removal. Since the NEC does not make it an option, you should not pose it as an option to your clients.
Just the rants of a crazed Tech who has been staring at itty bitty colored wires way too long……
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
Fire and safety issues are the reason why, in case you were wondering.
What is an abandoned cable?
The NEC considers a cable abandoned unless it is terminated on BOTH ends.
Yes, I know there is an exception if you tag it for future use, but don't count on that exception being in the 2005 code.
As installation companies, and installers, we need to incorporate labor into our MAC jobs to cover this removal. Since the NEC does not make it an option, you should not pose it as an option to your clients.
Just the rants of a crazed Tech who has been staring at itty bitty colored wires way too long……
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
daronwilson
Vendor
Well I must respectfully disagree a bit.
Actually...the NEC DOES give you the option, and as such I feel obligated to pass that information on to my customer. I'm all for getting rid of unused cable, and the NEC requirement is an excellent tool for convincing the customer of the need to remove it. However, the exception was put in there for a reason.
MAC's for us are many times in cubical type office construction, fed with power poles from a suspended ceiling or something similar. Last week they had 40 employees in this compartment, now they shuffle around the space and furniture and have 14. Next month they may have 34 people back in there. In a situation like this, we would likely pull the spare (abandoned) cables back to the firewall where they enter the compartment, tag them properly, and secure them until we need to move them back for the next go around. Of course this assumes they are supported correctly, etc.
I too have looked at multicolored wires way too long
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
Actually...the NEC DOES give you the option, and as such I feel obligated to pass that information on to my customer. I'm all for getting rid of unused cable, and the NEC requirement is an excellent tool for convincing the customer of the need to remove it. However, the exception was put in there for a reason.
MAC's for us are many times in cubical type office construction, fed with power poles from a suspended ceiling or something similar. Last week they had 40 employees in this compartment, now they shuffle around the space and furniture and have 14. Next month they may have 34 people back in there. In a situation like this, we would likely pull the spare (abandoned) cables back to the firewall where they enter the compartment, tag them properly, and secure them until we need to move them back for the next go around. Of course this assumes they are supported correctly, etc.
I too have looked at multicolored wires way too long
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
Servamatic
IS-IT--Management
The cubicle situation you describe is why the Standards include MUTOA's and Consolidation Points. Either of which are a better option for such a fluid operation.
They are also much less costly to the owner in the long run if they move cubicles and/or people frequently.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
They are also much less costly to the owner in the long run if they move cubicles and/or people frequently.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
daronwilson
Vendor
Very good point, some of the spaces do have consolidation points or MUTOA's. My point was not one of design preference, it was to illustrate that there is an option (as provided in the NEC) for leaving installed cabling in place, and a time that it may be practical. Perhaps my illustration wasn't clear, it may be only 3 cables or 10 cables, and it may take them a month or a year to rearrange, and often the interior walls and grid are changed.
Again, there is an alternative to removing the abandoned cables, as provided by the NEC, that is perfectly legitimate and useful depending on your particular customers needs and the installation.
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
Again, there is an alternative to removing the abandoned cables, as provided by the NEC, that is perfectly legitimate and useful depending on your particular customers needs and the installation.
Good Luck!
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
Servamatic
IS-IT--Management
The option will most likely be removed in the 2005 code. From people I know on the code committee, it is the intent to do away with that exception because too many "installers" are abusing it.
Frankly I wish it wasn't in the code now.
Too many times in MAC's I have had to fight with abandoned cables. Since way too many "installers" simply run their cables on the ceiling tiles it is a safety hazard as well. Especially when it prevents the opening of ceiling tiles.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
Frankly I wish it wasn't in the code now.
Too many times in MAC's I have had to fight with abandoned cables. Since way too many "installers" simply run their cables on the ceiling tiles it is a safety hazard as well. Especially when it prevents the opening of ceiling tiles.
Richard S. Anderson, RCDD
daronwilson
Vendor
I think many times the committees gradually ease into a situation to achieve what they want. It certainly is possible they will eliminate that exception, it's also possible they will change 50 other things, none of which I can anticipate nor will be required for me until Oregon adopts the new code in 2006. In the mean time, I'm obligated to use the currently adopted version of the code.
I agree that it is likely being abused by some installers, as are other recent changes in the code (such as the removal of conduit fill requirements for horizontal wiring).
Since way too many "installers" simply run their cables on the ceiling tiles it is a safety hazard as well. Especially when it prevents the opening of ceiling tiles.
If this is still being done, it is a code violation anyway (and has been for some time). I don't think that removing the abandoned cabling exception will have any effect on this type of work. These folks simply do not install to code or applicable standard. It is my understanding that if you modify the existing sub-standard installation, you are required to make it meet the current code. Often this means you plan on just a simple remodel and end up removing 500 pounds of surplus wire.
Hopefully we are all working to make the installations safe, standards compliant and meeting the current applicable code.
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
I agree that it is likely being abused by some installers, as are other recent changes in the code (such as the removal of conduit fill requirements for horizontal wiring).
Since way too many "installers" simply run their cables on the ceiling tiles it is a safety hazard as well. Especially when it prevents the opening of ceiling tiles.
If this is still being done, it is a code violation anyway (and has been for some time). I don't think that removing the abandoned cabling exception will have any effect on this type of work. These folks simply do not install to code or applicable standard. It is my understanding that if you modify the existing sub-standard installation, you are required to make it meet the current code. Often this means you plan on just a simple remodel and end up removing 500 pounds of surplus wire.
Hopefully we are all working to make the installations safe, standards compliant and meeting the current applicable code.
It is only my opinion, based on my experience and education...I am always willing to learn, educate me!
Daron J. Wilson, RCDD
daron.wilson@lhmorris.com
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Question