Mitel 3300 1

[DomP]

We are a company of about 80 people expecting to grow to 100 - 125 over the next couple of years. We are looking at the Mitel 3300 ICP solution and was wondering what people who are knowledgeable about phone systems thought of this Mitel solution?

Thanks in advance,

DomP

 

[mitelman]

I'm biased... I really like the product. It has come a long way in the last 3 years and is quite nice to work with. My only other experience with an IP solution is Nortel's BCM which freaks me out. The 3300 has already surpassed the 2k in alot of areas with the exception of redundancy. The ability to network with other switches works well and is reasonalbe with IP trunking. Are there any specific questions you have?

Simon

 

[DomP]

Simon,

Couple if you don't mind. My initial plan was to make sure our new phone system was VOIP capable but wasn't sure if I was ready to actually go this route. Just precautionary I guess. What I have found is that the phones are actually different along with other supporting equipment within the solution. So the bottom line is that while it is doable to purchase this system with Digital phones along with the cards, etc.....If I was planning on going to voip the time to do it is now. Basically going digital and then voip is rather cost prohibitive. Would you agree with this?

Also, could you tell me if the usage charges (phone bills) associated with a pure voip solution are any different than using this system with the digital phones?

And third, what are my major concerns in your opinion moving to voip now or not moving to voip.

Greatly appreciate your insights.

Dom

 

[TheMitelGuy]

I'll step in here, if I may.

1) It is up to you if you want to go VoIP today or next year. Eventually we will all be VoIP, it the way the train is going, and as you know, the train only follows the track. The VoIP phones from Mitel Networks are nice, and the handset take a little getting use to, but overall, Mitel has done a nice job (AGAIN).

2) VoIP has no additional charges then that of traditional PBX equipment. The VoIP, if used right can actually greatly reduce your costs. To the end user, VoIP is no different then a regular traditional phone. Of course, there is major techncial differences.

3) VoIP can be costly, depending on what you've got for a data network. You need to tell us what you have, and we can tell you if your going to have to upgrade, or just plunk a 5220 down on the desktop.

Mitel Networks has done very well with the 3300. I would put one in tomorrow, but we are Nortel Networks shop.

Neil

 

[DomP]

Neil,

Step right in, I APPRECIATE the input. We are moving our location so I see us probably having a cat 6 install (possibly 5e but I doubt it). We have only 1 24 port layer 2 switch so I assume I would need to have to increase this to support number of users. When you say data network does the NOS and server come into play. Or is it basically just the switch and cabling?

P.S. The mitel has an RJ45 port (not sure of spec) that supposedly I can plug my pc's into. 1 - I'm not sure if this port would have any ill effect on our gig nic/switch speed for our data. 2 - I assume we could save money not running voice lines to all the desktops.

Dom

 

[mitelman]

Dom,

Neil brings up good points. You are also right about it being more costly to start digital then go voip. We have had customers go both ways but quite often new installs and changeouts go voip while upgrades stay digital because they already have the sets. If the cost of making sure that the network is up to snuff is to great, you could go digital, upgrade the network as the bean counters allow and then replace or start adding ip sets to new employees.

I had one site go digital because they freaked out at the idea that the pbx would be on the network and figured it was too great a security risk.

If you are moving now is the time to get the network in place as it is a good excuse to those who pay bills. If you wish to use the 2nd lan port you would only need 1 lan drop to each desk. The ports on the phone is a switch port that can handle VLANS and are 10/100 I have had customers do it both ways. One thing I would strongly suggest is using inline power as the power supplies from Mitel are cumbersome and create a mess under desks and don't fit well in cubicle walls.

Another adavantage of the 3300 is the teleworker solution allow remote phones. Works great, I have one here at home to our office. We also have a CSR in Vancouver using one of our switch in Calgary.

For your network you will need to have managed switches if you want to join your voice and data so that you can implement voice prioritization on the network.

 

[DomP]

I thought I needed managed (layer 2) switches for the voice and data to travel over one line. Are you saying there is another option(s)?

The jack being some type of passthru not interfering with data transmission speed was questionable. I know when I had our current office wired to 5e specs, everything had to be 5e - cable, plates, terminations, patch panel, etc.....I don't think I'm willing to remove the gig data capability while saving some cabling dollars. Although I could do with some areas.

When you say on the network, this is probably my biggest concern as well. I'm really not sure of the implications. What if my main server goes down (intentionally or not)? My phones still operate? From an operational standpoint I like the idea if the phones aren't working it's one call to the vendor. I get the sense that if the phones aren't working it could be a mixed bag (us or them)? Any clarity here would be appreciated as this is unchartered territory for me.

Inline power is a unit supplying power centrally or is this built into each phone? Yes, the ip phones remotely looked pretty cool.

Appreciate your insights.

Dom

 

[TheMitelGuy]

Hey Dom,

Think of the 3300 as a regular data server, it actually is. Just like any other PC on the network, if a server goes down, the only traffic that is effected, is the traffic that goes to and from that particular server. So if your data server(s) go down they will not impact your voice IP phones or 3300. Keep in mind if the layer2 switch goes down, then then both the voice and data will go down, they both use the same switch.

The biggest problem with putting voice on the LAN is the delay and moving of data packets over the LAN. Voice has to be priority 1. I (and many manufactures) suggest Layer3. It's safer, and better. They cost more, but it makes things run better. For me, I use a layer2 switch off of our BCM. I notice a split second delay about 1 a month. It's very rare, but does happen.

Running a single cable to the desktop is a "Purchasable Option" from Mitel Networks. In other words, in order to have a single cable to the IP phone and a cable from the IP phone to the PC, you have to purchase this option. I have never used the PC port of a Mitel Phone, but I would put money down it works well.

Mitel Man = I would be interested to hear from you off line (neil_hyndman@hotmail.com) and find out where your located...

Thanks
Neil

 

[mitelman]

Dom, do you have gig nic's in your desktops?. If so, you may want to keep everything seperate to maintain the speed to the desktop.

As for implications on the network. If you use 1 drop to the desktop you'll have problems if the phones reboot in any way as the switch port will drop momentarily. Normally this is not a problem because pc's arre normally forgiving, but if you have thin clients it could be an issue. If the 3300 goes down for any reason the phones will reboot every few minutes trying to call home and reregister. Neil is correct about the data switches going down, then you're in a lot of hot water...

Inline power is a central unit that would sit back in your server room ,etc. Mitel sells Power Dsine. Some of our customers have used them quite good, and they won't fry your nics in the desktop if they get plugged in before the phone by accident.

Neil the single cable to the desktop is only purchaseable on the 200ICP.

Simon

 

[Chatbox]

Dom

I do not think there may be an issue with packet voice on LAN of 120 hosts (+ 120 IP phones). From my experience: this is roughly the number of hosts on our LAN, there is a central layer 2 switch where all servers and a 3300 sits, with distribution to 6 areas over gigabit fibre. In distribution closets, we have pick-and-mix hubs and unmanaged switches of various denomination. Initially, I was trying to connect IP phones to switched 100 ports, then it all went messy, especially with good old 5005 IP phones demanding 10 mbps port and preferably not autosensing, so one may find here IP phones sharing 10mbps on a hub. I have never had any complaints on the quality. We also use wireless NetVision with 3300 and some wireless SIP phones. In the areas with poor coverage they sound like cellular phones in the same situation. Apart from that, 5 to 10 hosts on one 10mb access point don't spoil two simultaneous 64k streams. I must admit that there are no multimedia applications on the LAN.

Although Simon is right about phone's extension port dropping if the phone hangs/needs reboot, that does not happen often.

 

[Chatbox]

I would much appreciate any comments on the following:

Briefly, we had an old dying analogue PBX and when it came to look for a replacement 2 years ago, we made a decision to go for packet voice, the market being populated with all makes of VoIP and Voip-capable TDM PBX. As it turned out, Mitel networks can talk to Cisco network (or to any other make of voip PBX) only through an h232 gateway or a digital or analog trunk. So, in theory, one can get stuck with no choice but a single make of PBX, and in each case, every option is heavily licensed. Which makes the PBX hardware cheap-ish but a phone, a device licence, a compression DSP card, an additional port will cost you an arm and a leg.

Dom, if you are moving sites and have not bought into any of the proprietary voip protocols, I suggest you look at SIP open source PBX such as Asterisk - runs on Linux, for example. I have not gone that way 2 years ago because there were no stable code and no handsets on the market. It is different now.

And just because I cannot get a decent tech support for what we invested into, and have to pour more and more money into it, I am looking at moving to open source.

Richard

 

[TheMitelGuy]

Richard does have some points. Open source systems will come some day. We have a hard time seeing it because we are so brand crazy over here in N/A, but he's right.

I personally like Mitels' solution.

 

[CMAC1]

The data switches that you want need to support 802.1p and q

That is VLAN tagging and prioritisation

802.3af which is power over Ethernet such as the HP2650 which is a managed layer 3 switch supporting all of the above.

Cisco now also support 802.3af however some of their older switches although providing power over ethernet do not support 802.3af and require a special 'dongle' to switch on the power.

Another option would be the PowerDsine 802.3af power hub which is a 24 port device which I usually install next to a switch - you then connect from the switch to the hub and from the hub to the PDS. The hub then injects the power onto the lan.

The other point is that Mitel's 5215 and 5220 handsets can now be set to 'dual boot' this is Mitel's VOIP protocol or SIP.

Finally, I have installed many 3300 with all of the above switch options and so long as the VLANs and VLAN tagging is correctly configured I have NEVER had a problem.