Mitel 3300: Night Bell/Chime & Bogan TG-4C (Tone Generator)

[pichels]

Hi,

I had a previous post where I tried to hookup a PLID/extension to Wheelock Signal RX-1419 Type D Relay for sending out a tone when a particular phone line is rung/dialed.

The purpose was for a Work Call-In line for our Shop guys when they are sick/absent.

The shop is loud and they can't hear the phone when someone calls this line.

So - awhile back - before my time - a relay was setup to trigger when the Ext/PLID is dialed.

This relay is "old"...

http://www.wheelock-products.com/catalog/product/RX-1419.aspx

...And was replaced by the vendor w/ this relay:

http://www.wheelock-products.com/brochures/CRT-T-40 Spec Sheet.pdf

Diagram of current setup:
3300Mxe --> Peripheral Cab --> Distrib block --> Extension/Jack --> Relay device --> Amplifier/Loud speaker system

Now, I want to re-work the above config - if possible.

Can I forget/remove the Type D Relay and use our Bogen Tone Generator instead to send out a tone to to our DFT/Zone paging and Amplified sound system?

Bogen TG-4C or NR100? ( We already have a TG-4C! )

http://www.bogen.com/products/specialelectronics/

Diagram of future setup?:
3300Mxe --> Peripheral Cab --> Distrib block/PLID --> Tone Gen device --> DFT --> Zone Paging --> Amplifier/Loud speaker system

We are having issues where the Relay sticks and emits a tone until we un-stick it! Very annoying...

Does the above make sense?
Any feedback is greatly appreciated.
Thanks.

-SP

 

[kwbMitel]

I've used the NR-100 for this purpose.

It has a Tip/Ring input that can be connected to an analog line to generate the Tone.

As long as the Shop phone is analog, you're done.

*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[pichels]

Hi kwb Mitel,

Ok - sounds good.
But, the NR100 is 100+ extra.
Can't I use the current Bogen Tone Gen?

The phone that we are using now is a digital phone - multi-line.
I could convert back to an analog - if needed.

Any other suggestions or comments?
Thx.

-SP

 

[kwbMitel]

All the devices you have mentioned are designed to work with analog cct's or contact closures. Without knowing exactly how your Multiline phone is configured to activate the device it is impossible to advise you.

*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[pichels]

Hi kwbMitel,

Ok - sorry I didn't give more details.
I'll include the directions I was given and followed to setup the current relay.

I actually had a similar post to this forum before and have the notes - I hope the following makes sense...

NOTE: I did not use a Bogen NR100 - I used the Type D Relay instead.

###########################################################

#1 - to achieve your goal we MUST remove the night bell contacts from the equation. Once a call is sent to night bell contacts the call will ring until answered or the caller hangs up. You cannot do any routing or forwarding to a call that terminates at the night bell contacts.

#2 - I need to assume that your Paging system requires a contact closure to achieve the objective of sending tones over speakers. If you can send ring voltage into the AMP ignore this step, otherwise acquire a unit such as a Bogen NR100 that will convert ring voltage from an analog set into tone and/or contact closure.

#3 - Program up an analog line on your system (DN does not matter) Connect the analog line to either the Bogen NR100 in step 2 or directly to amp if it has the appropriate input. The NR100 would have the Normally Open contact connected to the AMP to provide contact closer.

#4 - Program the DID multicall key to route to voicemail as the first alternative. This will make it ring the key and send to voicemail during the day. Set the Night routing to ring the Analog station on an immediate basis when the system is in night service. Alternatively, you can use the 3rd party call fwd option to turn forwarding to night bell on/off via speed dial keys. Forwarding method may be required if system goes into night at a different time than the dept with the key. If forwarding method is used the Analog line will probably need to be forwarded on Busy N/A to VM.

#5 - Program either a second multicall key on the sets with an appearance of the analog line to enable the call to be answered OR program a speed call to dial the directed call pickup code of the analog line. Without the multicalls, if you get 2 calls at the same time the 2nd call will go direct to VM. With multicalls the 2nd call with Queue.

During the day:
Call rings multicall key
Call goes to VM

During Night (or forward condition)
Call rings over paging (and any appearances if programmed)
Call can be answered with appearance or directed call pickup
Call will forward to voicemail after X rings (call fwd timer)

###########################################################

Does the above make sense?

This process is working for me w/ a multi-line phone and using the RX-1419 Relay as mentioned.
But, the relay is sticking as mentioned.

How can I enable my multi-line phone to use the Bogen TG-4C Tone Gen. device?

Similar to what I was given above with the NR100?

Thanks again for any help.

-SP

 

[kwbMitel]

Holy Smoke, The original text is mine, isn't it?

I actually remember this.

If you took this route, the original relay was triggering off the ringing of the analog device. Looking at the TG-4C it requires a contact closure. This is what the Wheellock relay provided.

The TG-4C will not work by itself.

A quick google search for "Telephone Ring Relay" provides several options.

http://www.electronics123.com/s.nl/it.A/id.2667/.f

http://www.canakit.com/telephone-ring-led-indicator-with-relay-output-kit-ck487-uk487.html

http://www.quasarelectronics.com/smart-kit/1122-telephone-ringer-relay-switch.htm

I still think the NR-100 is the way to go though. Less points of failure.



*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[MitelInMyBlood]

Place a piece of Scotch tape on top of the armature of the old relay. This should stop it from sticking, temporarily at least, long enough to get something else rigged up.

Original MUG/NAMU Charter Member

 

[pichels]

HI Guys-

Thanks for the quick posts.

Yep - KWBMitel -> those were your words. <smile>

Now I recall - I copied the notes into a Mitel README doc I keep for reference and didn't have your handle as part of the copied text.
The original post is still out there too.

Ok -I'll check out your links for a telephone ring relay - I understand now.
I was wondering if I could just use the TG-4C and guess I can't - thanks for clarifying!
I agree with less points of failure.

Thanks MIMB - I'll try the scotch tape and see what happens.
Like ye' ol' duct tape method here in the states...<grin>

So in summary:
I have been using the TG-4C & the RX-1419 relay to ring the current multi-line phone but the relay was sticking.

If I buy another relay and leave the current config - you are telling me I still need the relay + the TG-4C?
But, I could purchase the NR100 and that would take care of eliminating the two devices - correct?

And if I setup an analog phone "instead" of a multi-line/digital phone - I could bypass the TG-4C and just use a relay - is that right?

If that is the case - ok, I understand.

Much appreciated.

-SP

 

[kwbMitel]

I have been using the TG-4C & the RX-1419 relay to ring the current multi-line phone but the relay was sticking.

Yes but ... the relay is connected to an analog port with an appearance on the multicall

If I buy another relay and leave the current config - you are telling me I still need the relay + the TG-4C?
But, I could purchase the NR100 and that would take care of eliminating the two devices - correct?

Correct (on both counts)

And if I setup an analog phone "instead" of a multi-line/digital phone - I could bypass the TG-4C and just use a relay - is that right?

No. The config already has an analog setup. The analog port is an appearance on the multicall. Nothing changes if you remove the Multicall and replace it with the analog



*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[pichels]

Hi kwbMitel,

Ok - understood all three points now.

The only other nagging querstion to you and for me is...

Isd there any other way to accomplish setting up a night bell/chime than how I have it setup now?

There - now I think I may have exhausted this thread now.
<smile>

Thx again.

-SP

 

[kwbMitel]

I don't think there is another way that would be simple.

What is the Amplifyer type / Model?

*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[pichels]

Hi KwbMitel,

I'll check the Amp model im the AM - not sure. A mixture of all types in q rack the size of a single server-type rack.

I'll get the model of all devices - hopefully I can verify the one that emits/sends out the bell tone...

Thx.

-SP

 

[pichels]

Hi again,

Ok - a new diagram - there are more pieces to the puzzle now.

3300Mxe --> Peripheral Cab --> Distrib block --> Extension/Jack --> Wheelock RX-1419 Relay --> Raymer TGSP-4 Tone Generator --> Advantage 601e Mic/Line Mixer Biamp --> Precedence CMA60 Commercial Mix Amp - Biamp --> Paging Zones/Loudspeakers

Does this make sense?

So - looks like I have some more old equip - tone generator and relay for the Nite Bell...

Two choices as I see it so far:
1. Buy an NR100 to replace both aging TG and Relay devices.
2. Or replace just the aging relay.

Other options or comments?

Thanks!

-SP

 

[kwbMitel]

You could always go whole hog and replace the lot (including amp)

I'm not sure how much size you need but based on what you've said so far you might try looking at a Bogen TPU15A

It has Night bell tone and contacts built in with separate volume control.



*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[pichels]

Hi kwbMitel,

Ok - I'll look at the TPU15A - gracias.
I'll have to check the wiring again for all our systems.

I'd like to replace the whole lot but there are 2 other systems - one of which may share the tone generator w/ the Night Bell/chime.

1. Night Bell (Uses relay and TGSP-4 TG)
--> 2. Break Bell (for guys in shop - rings morning, noon and night - May share TG with night Bell)
3. Paging intercom (uses TG-4C)

I'll check the break bell - find out more info and get back to you so I know I havre a better understanding of the wiring in cae it is inerconnected "somehow" to the noght Bell.

Thanks again for your time and knowledge.

-SP

 

[pichels]

Hi kwbMitel,

On this link:

http://www.bogen.com/products/telephonepaging/

We currently have the ZPM3, TAMB & DFT120.
And as mentioned - we have a huge system of amplifiers.

Pardon my lack of insight but how would the TPU15A compliment or help our situation?
Cut down on points of failure and replace old equipment?
It does seem very reasonably priced - under $200 US.

Thanks!

-SP

 

[kwbMitel]

Forget the TPU15A.

It is for very small scall jobs and until now you have not provided information on the scope of the install.

*******************************************************
Occam's Razor - All things being equal, the simplest solution is the right one.

 

[pichels]

Hi kwbMitel,

Yes, I know this thread started out with the bad relay and how to replace.
And if I could replace with the TG-4C.

So - for now - I think I have enough info and have fixed the problem for now.
And know what my options are going forward.

I have "really" exhausted this thread and will put it to bed.
<smile>

If I have nmore questions for replacing amps or re-working the TG-4C or other current equip - I'll post a new thread.

Thanks again for all the insight into relays, tone generators & night bell ringer/devices.

-SP