Microsoft's Retail Management System? 1

[mjbosko]

Curious if anyone uses, or has clients that use, Microsoft's Retail Management System.

I've read the info at:

http://www.microsoft.com/BusinessSolutions/Retail Management/default.mspx

But would really like to hear some real life feedback from small- to mid-sized companies using the product.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[DTSMAN]

What type of enviroment will this be in? I assume retail. Here at my company we use Catapult by ECRS and Quicksell 2000 by microsoft. I went to the link you posted and I am not sure what that is used for. Sorry not much more help at this point. But I do know for the microsoft products that Quicksell 2000 has the nice user interface for ringing sales.

 

[mjbosko]

This is for a trailer sales company. They want to manage inventory - and be able to sell their trailers from stock - while being able to add on options to increase the sale value.

The company is small, with one remote location (the kicker so far).

I'm initially going at this from the standpoint that 'a widget is a widget'. POS systems that contain inventory control and accounting - seem to fit this business. Its just that this company's widgets weigh more and don't fit in a shopping bag.

Thoughts?

 

[mkatzer]

We are looking at it as a canidate for conversion from CAM Commerence Retail Star 6.5. Our biggest problems is that we need a database that can handle remote queries for our web sites,a dn doe snto crash under load. We manage the remote locations through a dedicated vpn link and term server (running as an admin console).

I'll post what we find out. The MS Soltuion is at a resonable price. The cheapest way is to purchase the MS SBS server (which comes with sql 2000, exchange server and 5 back office clients). You just need to add the pos software to the environment. I'll publish what I find out, as well as how we converted.


I'm tryign to find other POS solutions that use SQL 2000. I'm tired of the propritary databases that crash all of the time.

 

[mjbosko]

Thanks for the info. This is twice now that folks have warned me about proprietary dbs. Being a sql/vb developer, I definitely heed that warning. but.. I am curious, we are now investigating a product (Rainmaker software) that uses an older version of the Foxpro database.

To me, it looks like a dos based system with a windows-type look. But the vendor, of course, is insisting that it isn't DOS, but that its "character-based".... now, what the heck does that mean to you?? To me, dos we always called DOS character based.

My client is really interested in this software since its built for their specific needs (stock trailer sales) and I have to admit, we haven't seen any other software that states its specific to this market - I still think for the most part, selling a widget is selling a widget. Not sure where the specifics lie to trailer sales, other than maybe forms that say trailer forms. but i digress...

It looks like they want to go with this software. So my question to you folks is... are you considering old foxpro db's of the proprietary type in your heeds of warning?

 

[mkatzer]

well...

here is a quick test...

You should be able to grab a copy of visual studio and use the odbc data connection to access the db tables. if it crashes, or doesn’t work, then it will be a nightmare on doing any development. The other things to ask,.. does the DB work on multiple processors. If the answer is no, then the db is a single thread database that cannot handle async queries

Granted, you may not want to use a ms tool, but it really comes down to development time, depending on what you are doing. Likewise you can use visual studio to front end mysql database and it works fine

the other test is to ask if you have write privileges to the database. Most of these guys do not give it to you. If you can get write access, then don't use their product. I don't necessarily want to "write data and mess up primary keys", but there are times you need to do things, and that usually happens at 1 or 2 am in the morning, and you have the customer down


my 2cents

matt

matt

 

[RITE1]

Hi Mj - my company is a VAR for Microsoft Business Solutions, we specialize in the customization of their Retail Management Systems, and if you’re a programmer that wants to customize it for your business, it’s a dream come true. The database is wide open, plenty of user definable buttons and macros you can make refer to your apps, and you can hook into the point of sale program at certain points to trigger your app. Lots of places for add-ins.

It’s a very solid foundation from which to build a POS that fits your business like a glove. Very cool.

In any system you evaluate - customization ability is the biggest issue! IMO... An opens source pos movement would be sweet.

Hope that helps.

 

[mjbosko]

Rite1, Thats what I was looking for, thanks.

I'm finding it confusing how they price the product however. Is it just difficult to find base pricing because I'm not a MS VAR?

Was it difficult/expensive to become a MS VAR for RMS. And, you do find that it was a worthwhile investment?

Can you sell it to varying levels of businesses? That is, is the cost justifiable to even the small mom/pop shop?

Thanks again.

 

[RITE1]

Unless your speaking with a VAR finding more than single lane pricing would be difficult. Here’s the MSRP price break down:

single lane $1290
2-3 lanes - 2330
4-9 - 3890
10-19 - 5190
20-49 - 6490

The initial cost of being a Microsoft Business Solutions VAR is not too bad, the costs of training to really utilize the software and gain the ability to develop customization for it would make even a rich man cringe! My business specializes in RMS so yes, it is worthwhile. If your not going to focus on it or just make it part of your product offering I would say no its not then.

This software is targeted at mom/pop shops (1-3 stores) though I have had difficulty selling and implementing it in those stores because most of them are just looking for a computer that is a cash register, this is much more, and you pay for that too. If you are willing to invest the time and effort, this stuff could be very beneficial to even very small businesses. If your going to implement it with larger businesses (5 stores and over), customization is a must in my mind because the software by itself cannot handle these people the way it should. With larger outfits, showing a return on investment on customizations is easy and if you can't provide those types of services to larger businesses you should be selling to them - we consider it unethical at RITE.

We verticalize the software for certain industry and then move in and take over the market, thats our angle. For example, we have developed a package of customizations for liquor package stores in MN that make us almost irresistible to that market. The ROI figures we show to our clients over their current pos system make it profitable to dump the system they just bought in exchange for ours .

Hope that helps

Rick

 

[DTSMAN]

Rite1, My company has sold some of Microsoft's Quicksell product. I wasn't involved with it because I work with other softwares, but they liked the idea of selling Quicksell and then letting Microsoft support it, which is how MS was promoting it to us.
My question is, what is the difference between the MS product you are talking about and the Quicksell product that I have seen?

 

[RITE1]

QuickSell Commerce is the previous version of this product. Before Microsoft bought SMS out, they were in the introductory stages of releasing QuickSell Commerce, which is the re-vamped and much improved version of QuickSell 2000.

There has been much discussion about having Microsoft support the product because most problem arise out of a hardware or windows incident, neither of which MS will handle when supporting this product (for good reason). To serve the customers well, you need to have comprehensive support packages. Lately, it seems many partners have strayed away from offering MS support packages and started offering in house support with optional on site assistance.

 

[mkatzer]

We are in the process of converting over to rms. We currently use CAM commerce retail star. CAM's products is like using software that was built in the 80's. It is pretty out of date.

Our main driving factor was the sql server database support. You can get thrid party apps pretty cheaply with sql server products. Sql server allows multiple apps to run at the same time agains the db. CAM's product crashes with multiple apps accessing the db.

We will bring the new system in line in a test mode during the holidays to see what happens and migrate all of the data in jan from CAM's 6.6 product (and dump it -- CAM's product is built on a old acess type database technology that cannot handle xp style systems) . Besides they overcharge you every chance they get.

 

[cwivy]

I am currently a CAM user... 8.33d. and am considering moving to RSM as well, but would like some assurances as well. 7 locations in 5 states.... I would like to speak with to someone about my size that has moved to QuickSell - RSM any help appreciated... thanks cwivy cwivy@yahoo.com

 

[RITE1]

I’m working with a high volume 5 store chain right now (20+ mill a year) - we are just starting the HQ implementation. Don't have any answers yet but I would be glad to let you know how it’s going once things start moving.

What type of business are you running?

Rick

http://www.rite-enterprises.com

 

[cwivy]

Hi Rick, I sell educational materials that teachers use in the classroom, everything except the textbooks and very limited software. we do less than half your volume.... I used Novell in the past as os but shifted a while back to nt. The constant crap that these malevalent creeps keep turning out to attack ms is really a concern. It seems that you had better stay up on the latest spyware and several programs at that and worry about your os less than the worms and the trojans.... so far I haven't had any problems, but that will change. My old system is dos based and they no longer support it; have developed 32 bit, but if I upgrade to it, that is all I have, their upgrade. MS buying SMS and the QuickSell line is intriguing. Of course all sales literature from everyone says theirs will do everything --- the caveat, yes, it does but you have to do it this way..... that is why I am looking at this open type from ms..... This approach from MS seems to do a lot for resellers (the good ones anyway) I was a ComputerLand franchise in the early 80's, back when you could get cpm86 or ucsd for your ibm pc..... things sure have changed... thanks for the reply... Charlie

 

[shepherd]

I just happened on this thread searching for info on Microsoft's RMS system. I've had a hard time finding developer info on the product so far, so I'm really hoping someone can help me out here. OK, here it goes... I was wondering two things: First, does anyone know if there is a way to customize the "item properties" form? I need a way of defining custom properties for items entered in the inventory database, and would rather not have to put together a completely separate form/application to do this. For example, I need to store vendor information as well as supplier information for items. Right now, there is only a tab for supplier information, but no vendor info tab. Is there any way to add/remove tabs, or change the design in any way? Second, is there an available event to attach to when barcodes are scanned and read by the POS system? Right now, POS tries to do an Item Lookup for scanned items, but I need to instead map barcodes to a field other than the Item Lookup Code. Thanks in advance for any help!!

 

[RITE1]

Interesting post cwivy - "This approach from MS seems to do a lot for resellers (the good ones anyway)" - scary though, there are lots of bad ones right now and it seems like only more to come. Many just out to make a quick buck, an MS is recruiting more. IMO, its the worst thing you can do during a product introduction as resellers are really the face of the product.

Buyers beware - the product is great but make sure the people you buy from know what their doing. Don’t get me wrong, because it’s so open, RMS has huge potential to be the best system out there but don’t plan on buying it off eBay and turning a profit on your investment. Retail systems aren’t something you can pick up a book and implement well. If your looking for maximum RETURN ON INVESTMENT you need people with experience on these types of products.

Sheperd -

is a way to customize the "item properties" form – no,

Is there any way to add/remove tabs - I wish, matter of fact I formally submitted it as a product upgrade for the next release about a month ago. Hopefully this product is going to be more customizable in the next releases.

is there an available event to attach to when barcodes are scanned and read by the POS system - If I read you right, no, not within RMS anyway. Check out information on barcode scanner programming, you can do some wild things with them.

I've had a hard time finding developer info on the product so far - join the crowd, IMO MBS has done a terrible job managing the partner channel. Props to their marketing staff though, now if MS would only tell us how to make it do all the wonderful thing the literature says it can .

 

[cwivy]

Hi Rick.... agree. I was told that with $500 and the knowledge of how to shut down windows, you too can be a dealer and that is too bad. How is your project going??? I have repeatedly asked for actual businesses using the RMS program. MS said that they would, that was last week. I totally understand the profit structure and don't expect to get the software for nothing. thanks for the post. Charlie

 

[mjbosko]

A great thread!

cwivy, I've been unable to find any businesses using RMS for checking out as references. I'd really like to hear how businesses, that have been running on it for some time, are liking the funcionality. From what I'm seeing on the MS site, and from what I'm hearing from RITE1, I'm liking what I'm hearing.

I did, however, find a company by chance this past week. I was in Maui (my wife -made- me go) and stopped into a retail shop. The folks were scratching their heads and pacing around - so, being inquisitive on tech issues, I popped my head over the counter and asked. They were going thru install woes, big time, but ... what I liked was that they were still excited about the product coming online! They gave me a brief tour and I really liked what I saw.

I've been developing barcode / mobile data collection applications for many years and its nice to see a product thats built to handle differing types of companies.

I only wish I could get better info on what type of companies this product targets. In fact, I wish there was more detailed info available. Microsoft only gives us limited sneak peaks. Maybe this is only until we become resellers???

If so, I can see why so many folks are resellers that shouldn't be. I personally, would like to pay the $500 and be on board, but I'm of the type of deveoper/integrator that needs to know more about the product I'm selling before diving in. I think thats a good thing, but they're not making the option efficient. Sad.

Let me know if I'm off my rocker here tho! If there is better, more detailed, info available, I'd like to take a look.

thx, -Mike

 

[cwivy]

I got a call from MS to follow up on my inquiry. I was very blunt with them, told them what I wanted.... (really more of what I was dreaming about) She promised me a response from an regional supervisor.... we will see. I have look at CAM32 in some detail last week and talked with a couple of geeks that use it in their retail stores in the east. I must admit I am going to give CAM32 a reprieve. Thier old stuff did work and the ms-dos transition was a bit disappointing. I may be able to use my credit card sales to negotiate with since they have their own processing company..... I do like their R&D people. I am moving to my "flagship store" in January so I am rather tight for time before next August.... later Charlie