Microsoft fails in court bid to suspend EU ruling

[jamesch]

BRUSSELS, Belgium - A European Union court ruled Wednesday that Microsoft Corp. must immediately divulge some trade secrets to competitors and produce a version of its flagship Windows operating system stripped of the program that plays music and video.
The 91-page ruling effectively thwarts Microsoft’s attempt to delay, pending appeal, implementation of the EU’s landmark antitrust decision in March that demanded changes in the software giant’s business practices.

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/6737173/

What are your thoughts.

The second post is my two cents!

 

[jamesch]

Basically is a form of communism, what ever happened to free enterprise, especially here in the US. If I want to start a company and produce a product for the consumer then it’s my free enterprise right to produce it how I feel it should be done, and if and when the consumer feels he does not like my product he has the free right not to buy it or buy it. And it’s my free right in my company to give any of my products for free, it does not matter if the business makes money or not, or if it’s just for marketing, it’s still my free right as a business owner to do just that. As a competitor it’s his/her job to compete with my company and produce a better product. Example Microsoft, MS has every free right to sell Windows OS, and has every free right to give any of its products for free with the purchase of Windows, as Internet explore. As a business it a free enterprise for them to do that, as a competitor I would find every way to compete and sell my product, not just find a high price law firm and sue, because my business cant compete anymore.

Let’s look at Wal-Mart, and the neighborhood Wal-Mart that’s a grocery store. I’m in Oklahoma, and we used to have family owned and local grocery stores, and not in the back-woods either, I’m talking about in Oklahoma City. Look at how Wal-Mart is putting these small grocery stores out of business, where is the government to step in and stop Wal-Mart. There popping up every where. We still have Albertsons, and Homeland, but its far and few, not like Wal-Mart, where they have a store within 5-8 miles of each other.

Where are the Anti-Trust liberal hippies to stop them, like they did with Microsoft and Internet Explore, when Novell, Sun, and other cried to stop MS?

What about the Auto-manufactures look at how they all have grouped

GM has – Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Hummer, Oldsmobile, Pontica, Saab, Saturn
Ford has – Lincoln, Mercury, Mazda, Volvo, Jaguar, Land-Rover, Aston-Martin
Chrysler has – Mercedes, Dodge, Jeep, Mitsubishi, Freightliner trucks, Sterling trucks.

All it takes is just two of the biggest auto manufactures to merge into one, and don’t think it wont happen, just look at what divisions they own already. Are the Liberal hippies and the Anti-Trust group stopping them!

I’m With MDXer; pull all MS products from Europe, and let the French communism deal with angry citizens, and business.

Microsoft does not have to put-up with the BS in Europe!

If Dunkin donut’s wants to sell a dozen donuts, and give a free dozen, it’s there free right to do so. It does no good for Joe’s Donuts to sue and stop Dunkin donuts for giving away free donuts.

Point is AMERICA is Free Enterprise, keep it that way, and it spurs good competition among business, get the attorneys out, there sticking there noses in to many places.

 

[jamesch]

MDXer had replied to thread676-807170.

 

[SQLSister]

jamesch

In the first place all liberals are not hippies and I resent you using the term liberal as a perjorative. Nor do only liberals support anti-trust rules. In fact, the biggest trust buster was a Republican. Perhaps you should get some education on why monopolies are bad for the ecomony and the general welfare of the citizens of the country. Try reading some history. Unrestrained capitalism is every bit as dangerous and unsuccesful as communism. Nor is placing restrictions on business practices communism. Perhaps you should learn the actual meaning of words before you throw them around so recklessly.

Questions about posting. See faq183-874

 

[jamesch]

SQLsister,

As I said in my post it’s my two cents, that’s my view on liberals, just as liberals have there view on conservatives. I will leave it as that. lets move on to business practices. First off there is a BIG difference between government controlling the way a company decides how to sell there products, and the safety of that product to the general public. The general public has the right NOT to buy Microsoft’s products and use alternatives, and yes there are alternatives.

The way MS sells Windows, with free IE. Why should the government control that? Why should the government control a business if it wants to give a product for free? Everyone else only started to cry only after MS made it big in the desktop area, and started giving out free product.
All the other technology companies have the opportunity to make there product better, and there is products out there that is better than Microsoft. Our company does not use the backup program that is built into Windows; we use third party software. Should CA and other sue MS because Windows Server has a free backup program?

I did not say an unrestricted business practices, you implied that. I do realize there is a FINE line that must be balanced between free and control, with capitalism; it’s called morals and ethics.

Capitalism is at its worst when morals and ethics are not followed in business practices, like child labor or moving you company to China. The ethics part has a big grey area. In America we have been loosing the morals in people, more and more, and when we take the lack of morals from our home into the work place, and then it changes everything.

Placing more and more restricted business practices on a company is communism without the re-distribution of wealth, probably more socialism.

Why should the government come into a company and tell it when to do business and how to do business, how to sell, and what to sell, and to whom to sell too.

This is the new emerging form of communism, and transitioning into socialism, just like Germany and France, it takes away from free enterprise.

 

[GwydionM]

Adam Smith, generally regarded as the first ideologist of capitalism, was against joint-stock companies. No single system can be called 'capitalist' because there have been so many variations.

Microsoft and Bill Gates are keen on state enforcement when it comes to stopping "free enterprise" production of their own software. That's fair enough, but he can't ask for state protection on some issues and refuse it on others.

As for Communism, your dictionary should tell you that it means common ownership of all the means of production. The regulation of private commerce is a feature of every society that has allowed private commerce: the mediaeval guilds were vastly more restrictive, but not in any sense socialist.

Socialism is about taxation and regulation with the intention to create equality. It doesn't really come into this particular issue, where the intention is to give other private companies a decent chance of surviving against Microsoft's market-grabbing methods.

The USA has failed to enforce its own anti-trust rules. Europe is doing rather better.

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A view from the UK

 

[polymath5]

What market grabbing? RealMedia and others are trying to do in the courts what they couldn't do in the marketplace. If people want to use it fine, if they don't and want to use something that is free with the OS that's fine too.

MS should just tell the EU, tough. No trade secrets. Don't like it? We pull all support for all MS products, no new sales. That should make the governments, businesses, end users, IT Pros, that depend on MS very happy. No one forces anyone to use MS products. There are alternatives, maybe not as good in all things, but they exist. Let all the users use Linux if they want to. Sure integration isn't as good and they aren't as easy to use as Windows, but hey, they are free or close to it.

MS defends its IP as it should. If you create original content or buy it, you shouldn't be forced to give it up unless you want to. If you want to, no one should tell you can't give it away.

If the local grocer decided to give a lot of extra food away with a single purchase, should another grocer be able sue him to stop? Or demand that they be given some of the produce?

Lets look at this like a ball game. 3 components: Ball, Field, Players. Take one away, no game. Player want to play, the ball's owner wants to play. But the field's owner wants to let some air out of the ball. The owner of the ball has the right to say not to my ball, go use someone elses. Who comes out the loser? The Players!

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Mens et Manus
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[GwydionM]

Big powerful companies can destroy their rivals, whose ideas may be just as good or maybe better. That's a simple fact. That's why rules get imposed by governments, and no real-world economy has ever run without them.

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A view from the UK

 

[polymath5]

So does that mean that the little companies should get the benefit of the development put in by the big companies? Or that the USERS lose?

That MS has to reveal trade secrets and source code is nuts. They developed the code, let someone else do the same thing.

RealMedia want's a chance to compete? Their product is inferior. Why would I want something taken out of windows that works fine, and have to buy something that isn't as good?

If a technology and the support is as good or better, it will survive.

Want an alternative, use Linux.

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Mens et Manus
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[GwydionM]

Readers might be interested in the discussion on thread779-974855 in the Windows XP forum.

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A view from the UK

 

[KevinMCG]

I don't really care what os I use and I use many. Let the "EU's" get their own EU company to design an OS and then have their own Bill Gato or whatever. bill Gates is a very smart man and he made money. I am sure that if you were smart enough in 80's to design an OS maybe you would be on top like him. I use mainly Apple so it doesn't bother me one bit. It's no money out of my pocket. Let the crying EU's wah wah go get linux and forgetaboutit!

http://www.mcgsurge.com