How much should an MCSE with three years experience expect to make? I have been with my company since I started in IT and think I do a great job (the boss reassures me of this), problem is I am going to take my final test next Thursday and he is telling me I will get a new PDA!! Who cares about a cell phone I want a raise. Right now I make about 37, I have heard of others making more than me, without the certs but more exp. Should I be expecting more once I get the MCSE? Jacksonville, FL- to help with pay ranges.
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MCSE Salary expectations 2
- Thread starter 4theU
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mrdenny
Programmer
- May 27, 2002
- 11,595
Your pay can be effected by an MCSE. However you will probably notice this more if you look for a new job.
Honestly 3 years experience isn't very long. It took me until the 5 year mark before I started seeing better money.
Odds are the best way that you will see better money will probably be if you look outside the company you are currently working for.
All that said, there are more things than money to think about when looking at your current/future positions. Is the job fun, are the people good to work with/for. Are the benefits good, is the company good, is the company growing, etc?
I was working at a company making good money. However the company was a horrible place to work. No fun at all, the people didn't know what they were doing, to much paperwork and not enough actual doing of work. I quit the place cold one day. Told my boss that it wasn't working out and that I was giving my two weeks notice. Four days later I was out the door and never went back. Best decision I ever made. Spend the next couple of months looking for a job.
This time I was looking for a good company with good people (which I found). I wasn't to concerned about the money (mostly because my resume speaks for it self) and was pleasantly rewarded when the money came with the good work environment.
Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
![[noevil]](/data/assets/smilies/noevil.gif "[noevil] [noevil]")
Honestly 3 years experience isn't very long. It took me until the 5 year mark before I started seeing better money.
Odds are the best way that you will see better money will probably be if you look outside the company you are currently working for.
All that said, there are more things than money to think about when looking at your current/future positions. Is the job fun, are the people good to work with/for. Are the benefits good, is the company good, is the company growing, etc?
I was working at a company making good money. However the company was a horrible place to work. No fun at all, the people didn't know what they were doing, to much paperwork and not enough actual doing of work. I quit the place cold one day. Told my boss that it wasn't working out and that I was giving my two weeks notice. Four days later I was out the door and never went back. Best decision I ever made. Spend the next couple of months looking for a job.
This time I was looking for a good company with good people (which I found). I wasn't to concerned about the money (mostly because my resume speaks for it self) and was pleasantly rewarded when the money came with the good work environment.
Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
You're getting screwed big time. For MCSE you should get at least a 1k bonus(to at least pay for the price of the tests). The PDA does not cut it dude. You should just look for a new job like said above unless you love your current spot. You will get a much bigger bump when you leave.
2003 MCSE is a damn hard to come by, just look at all the people in this forum who had to take their tests 2 and sometime 3 times before they passed.
2003 MCSE is a damn hard to come by, just look at all the people in this forum who had to take their tests 2 and sometime 3 times before they passed.
- Thread starter
- #5
I looked on salary.com for Jasonville for a Network Admin level I, and it said 42k. Usually salary.com is on the high side, but in this case I think they got it wrong.
You should look at job boards like craigslist.com for your area and see what the demand is for your qualifications. If you see a bunch of jobs posting all looking for MCSE's then you will know that the demand is high and it is time to leave. Check the areas around jacksonville also. Maybe if you move somewhere you will get paid more, but cost of living maybe much higher.
You said you have 3 yrs exp. but have you been doing hands on Windows 2003 server operations for the passed three yrs. Or are you just studying the books without to much hands on exp? That also can make a huge difference in pay.
You should look at job boards like craigslist.com for your area and see what the demand is for your qualifications. If you see a bunch of jobs posting all looking for MCSE's then you will know that the demand is high and it is time to leave. Check the areas around jacksonville also. Maybe if you move somewhere you will get paid more, but cost of living maybe much higher.
You said you have 3 yrs exp. but have you been doing hands on Windows 2003 server operations for the passed three yrs. Or are you just studying the books without to much hands on exp? That also can make a huge difference in pay.
Experience is the key with IT. This is the underlying rule. The more work with different environments is the key.
Also, if you work for a smaller company (like me for my first 4 years between 1999- 2003), then they probably don't pay what the larger enterprises do. You will probably get a whole lot better experience working for the smaller company. You pay is a bit low though.
The market is getting better internationally (i am in Adelaide, Australia ;-)) so take a risk and start looking around. The interview process is a VERY important learning experience.
One thing with MCSE 2003 though…
There are around 275 000 Win2k MCSE's, there are around 30 000 Win2k3 MCSE's. IT is tougher to get 2003 so that does have some weight.
Goodluck, you have a lot to look forward to.
"Assumption is the mother of all f#%kups!
Also, if you work for a smaller company (like me for my first 4 years between 1999- 2003), then they probably don't pay what the larger enterprises do. You will probably get a whole lot better experience working for the smaller company. You pay is a bit low though.
The market is getting better internationally (i am in Adelaide, Australia ;-)) so take a risk and start looking around. The interview process is a VERY important learning experience.
One thing with MCSE 2003 though…
There are around 275 000 Win2k MCSE's, there are around 30 000 Win2k3 MCSE's. IT is tougher to get 2003 so that does have some weight.
Goodluck, you have a lot to look forward to.
"Assumption is the mother of all f#%kups!
NickFerrar
MIS
Whilst your current salary does seem a little low, as others have said you need to look at the job overall rather than just the salary. If you enjoy it, get good benefits, good vacation time, fun place to work, work with new technology etc etc all these can make up the difference in the basic salary.
Again as has already been said, short of getting a big promotion then you're only going to get significant pay rises by moving jobs most of the time. You can always try the "pay me more or I'm off" thing but it rarely works
An MSCE as such doesn't mean a whole lot in my experience, it got devalued a lot during NT/2000 and hasn't really recovered in most employers eyes. I bet most wouldn't even care if it were a 2000 or 2003 MCSE. I did my MCSE as it became a requirement of the job (we do consultancy so the company likes to say it has MCSEs etc.), it didn't get me any more money.
Again as has already been said, short of getting a big promotion then you're only going to get significant pay rises by moving jobs most of the time. You can always try the "pay me more or I'm off" thing but it rarely works
An MSCE as such doesn't mean a whole lot in my experience, it got devalued a lot during NT/2000 and hasn't really recovered in most employers eyes. I bet most wouldn't even care if it were a 2000 or 2003 MCSE. I did my MCSE as it became a requirement of the job (we do consultancy so the company likes to say it has MCSEs etc.), it didn't get me any more money.
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The biggest problem I see is half the people who go for/obtain MCSE status end up doing about 2% of what the certification is geared towards.
"The MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2003 credential is appropriate for IT professionals working in the typically complex computing environment of medium-to-large organizations. We recommend that an MCSE on Windows 2003 have at least one year of experience implementing and administering a network operating system."
That quote is from Microsoft. Complex computing environment in of medium-to-large organizations. This does not mean doing desktop support for a company of 50 users.
"The Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE) certification is designed to prove your expertise in designing and implementing the infrastructure for business solutions based on the Microsoft Windows 2000 platform and Microsoft Windows Server System"
Again, this does not describe troubleshooting desktop issues, or even server and basic network issues for that matter. "Expertise in designing and implementing the infrastructure for business". Some of the best active directory support people and AD admin people I know couldn't design an active directory to save their lives. Design requires communicating with businesses, getting a good analysis of what their needs are, then designing the infrastructure and technology to support or enhance those areas. How many MCSE's do that on a daily basis? Having a piece of paper that says you can do it (hence MCSE) combined with a track record of actually doing it is a lot more powerful and convincing than just the paper.
Of course, a lot of these problems are created by lazy HR people who refuse to do any research and find out what job role or title matches up with what certification. I was recently doing a security audit for a very large company here in Chicago; I was having a conversation with an HR person who had concerns about their personnel information not being protected. She asked me about my CISSP and how long did it take to get it, and what it meant. Her comment to me was this. "I think I'll write in our job descriptions for all computer technicians and technology managers to have that" I almost puked. Needless to say the rest of the convo didn't go so well. I noticed on this company's website they had an opening for two help desk support people. Requirements? MCSE, CCNA, and get this....CCIE preferred!!!! Until HR actually starts doing their homework, these problems will only get worse.
To sum it up, it does appear that you might be under paid. But it's key to evaluate what your job role is.
Good luck and happy hunting.
CISSP, MCT, MCSE2K/2K3, MCSA, CEH, Security+, Network+, CTT+, A+
"The MCSE on Microsoft Windows 2003 credential is appropriate for IT professionals working in the typically complex computing environment of medium-to-large organizations. We recommend that an MCSE on Windows 2003 have at least one year of experience implementing and administering a network operating system."
That quote is from Microsoft. Complex computing environment in of medium-to-large organizations. This does not mean doing desktop support for a company of 50 users.
"The Microsoft Certified Systems Engineer (MCSE) certification is designed to prove your expertise in designing and implementing the infrastructure for business solutions based on the Microsoft Windows 2000 platform and Microsoft Windows Server System"
Again, this does not describe troubleshooting desktop issues, or even server and basic network issues for that matter. "Expertise in designing and implementing the infrastructure for business". Some of the best active directory support people and AD admin people I know couldn't design an active directory to save their lives. Design requires communicating with businesses, getting a good analysis of what their needs are, then designing the infrastructure and technology to support or enhance those areas. How many MCSE's do that on a daily basis? Having a piece of paper that says you can do it (hence MCSE) combined with a track record of actually doing it is a lot more powerful and convincing than just the paper.
Of course, a lot of these problems are created by lazy HR people who refuse to do any research and find out what job role or title matches up with what certification. I was recently doing a security audit for a very large company here in Chicago; I was having a conversation with an HR person who had concerns about their personnel information not being protected. She asked me about my CISSP and how long did it take to get it, and what it meant. Her comment to me was this. "I think I'll write in our job descriptions for all computer technicians and technology managers to have that" I almost puked. Needless to say the rest of the convo didn't go so well. I noticed on this company's website they had an opening for two help desk support people. Requirements? MCSE, CCNA, and get this....CCIE preferred!!!! Until HR actually starts doing their homework, these problems will only get worse.
To sum it up, it does appear that you might be under paid. But it's key to evaluate what your job role is.
Good luck and happy hunting.
CISSP, MCT, MCSE2K/2K3, MCSA, CEH, Security+, Network+, CTT+, A+
A couple of questions to go along with my comments.
1. Did your company pay for your MCSE (this includes books and study material).
2. Did your supervisor (or a company representative ask you to obtain MCSE?
3. What were your primary reasons for going for the MCSE?
I'll also add this;
Sometimes just having the MCSE does have clout. Early in my career I took a job at a global retailer who needed to add another MCSE to their staff. My job was basically to just be there. It turned out that they needed to have a certain number of MCSE's on staff to be a Gold Certified Partner. So yep, a few of us were just there to add to the number. Sure they had us doing somethings, like backing up pre-sales engineers and specialists, but for the most part we did what we wanted all day. So regardless of what so caleld "industry experts" say about this cert is worth it and this one is not, follow your own path. If nothing is stopping you from going after a particular certification, go for it. You never know where down the road they might come in handy. I like this quote.... "Luck is when preparation meets opportunity" Be prepared and qualified so that when the opportunity knocks, you'll be able to answer.
CISSP, MCT, MCSE2K/2K3, MCSA, CEH, Security+, Network+, CTT+, A+
1. Did your company pay for your MCSE (this includes books and study material).
2. Did your supervisor (or a company representative ask you to obtain MCSE?
3. What were your primary reasons for going for the MCSE?
I'll also add this;
Sometimes just having the MCSE does have clout. Early in my career I took a job at a global retailer who needed to add another MCSE to their staff. My job was basically to just be there. It turned out that they needed to have a certain number of MCSE's on staff to be a Gold Certified Partner. So yep, a few of us were just there to add to the number. Sure they had us doing somethings, like backing up pre-sales engineers and specialists, but for the most part we did what we wanted all day. So regardless of what so caleld "industry experts" say about this cert is worth it and this one is not, follow your own path. If nothing is stopping you from going after a particular certification, go for it. You never know where down the road they might come in handy. I like this quote.... "Luck is when preparation meets opportunity" Be prepared and qualified so that when the opportunity knocks, you'll be able to answer.
CISSP, MCT, MCSE2K/2K3, MCSA, CEH, Security+, Network+, CTT+, A+
itsjustnorm
Technical User
I am in Jacksonville and 37000 is robbery. MCSE with 2-3 years should be around 50,000. 5 years or more are around 60,000. Tell your boss you are outta there.
- Thread starter
- #12
Thanks everyone for the responses. I work in consulting so yes I have been getting plenty of work experience, not just reading. My company did pay for the books and paid for the tests, if I passed them. It was required of me to become an MCSE, but it was something that I wanted to do, to prove that I know what I am doing. Hopefully when my next review comes I will get a large pay raise and get close to what I want to be making right now. I feel like I should be making 45, maybe thats just because I am willing to settle at this point because even though I don't exactly get along with my coworkers, I feel like the experience this company is giving me is priceless. I travel and work late though, which I don't mind, but I want to be paid for it. Thanks again for the advice. I don't want my resume to look like the guy that can't hold a job, so I was trying to last 5 years before giving up on this company. But unfortunately, I think I am going to be pounding the pavement soon.
if you are making less than 50,000 got 3 yrs,and have a 2003 mcse, you are getting screwed man, and working that cheap is depreciating the value of a mcse's.... people like you working for that cheap is gonna screw the rest of us... you are being taken advantage of and your boss has to know he/she is never gonna be able to find someone with those skills that cheap
tell you boss to "shove the pda up his *** " and go make some real money
i am on my way to becoming 2003 mcse, but i failed my first 2003 290 exam, so i know how hard those test are...
you are worth much more if you can pass the 7 required test to become 2003 mcse
tell you boss to "shove the pda up his *** " and go make some real money
i am on my way to becoming 2003 mcse, but i failed my first 2003 290 exam, so i know how hard those test are...
you are worth much more if you can pass the 7 required test to become 2003 mcse
gpastorelli
MIS
Unfortunately this is the going rate for an MCSE, that I've seen at least. It's sad but true. I got about 3 years experience and carry the following certs - MCSE:Security, MCDST, C|EA, Sec+, Net+, A+ and THE best I was able to get salary wise was $38,000. But I quit that job b/c the boss was completely disrespectful. My current job is $34,000 as the only IT person in the bank. This is also due to the area I live in where IT is not respected at all and pay is super low (my last job as tech support I started at $6.00 an hour, go figure).
I wish I could find a position making $50,000 + somewhere in this area.
I wish I could find a position making $50,000 + somewhere in this area.
mrdenny
Programmer
- May 27, 2002
- 11,595
You can have all the certs you want. But if you don't have the job experience to go with it the high paying jobs won't be running to you. When I had 3-4 years experience I was making about what you are making now. Now that I've got 7+ years experience I'm making quite a bit more than that.
Once I got passed the 5 years in IT was I able to really move up in the pay scale.
Certs shouldn't be looked at as a way to guarantee increased sallary. They should be looked at as a way to give yourself an edge over folks without the certs. They may lead you to a couple thousand more per year, there isn't anything to guarantee that they will.
Nothing (including lots of certs) will make up with spending time doing the job. Speaking as a person with several certs I got them to give my self the edge in the interview process over people that don't have the certs. After that I let my resume and experience spear for it self. I've had the crappy IT job that I stuck with because I knew that I needed to pay my dues in the field before I was going to be able to command the larger sallary. And now I can and do command the larger sallary that I wanted.
Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
Once I got passed the 5 years in IT was I able to really move up in the pay scale.
Certs shouldn't be looked at as a way to guarantee increased sallary. They should be looked at as a way to give yourself an edge over folks without the certs. They may lead you to a couple thousand more per year, there isn't anything to guarantee that they will.
Nothing (including lots of certs) will make up with spending time doing the job. Speaking as a person with several certs I got them to give my self the edge in the interview process over people that don't have the certs. After that I let my resume and experience spear for it self. I've had the crappy IT job that I stuck with because I knew that I needed to pay my dues in the field before I was going to be able to command the larger sallary. And now I can and do command the larger sallary that I wanted.
Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
- Thread starter
- #16
I agree with MrDenny on many levels, my original goal was to reach 5 years exp, and then demand more money, but with my job I travel, and when you go to Dallas and the guy you are working with doesn't know squat and he is driving a 45000 truck talking about the new house he bought on the lake and he is only about two years older then you, you start to think, people doing less work then you, less knowledgeable then you are, making alot more then you, and it gets frustrating. I just know that the experince that this job is giving me is worth more then the pay in the long run. I just want to get where I can quit living paycheck to paycheck, I thought those days were over with after college.
mrdenny
Programmer
- May 27, 2002
- 11,595
I know exactly how you feel. I live in one of the most expensive parts of the US to live in (Orange County, CA). I get all pissed off when I see people on the news that life in the mid west making almost nothing with a huge house, but I'm stuck renting an appartment living almost paycheck to paycheck even though I make decent money.
With today's inflation, housing prices, and the value of the dollar it's just to expensive to buy anything. (Keeping in mind that I'm more screwed than most as a small 2 bedroom house with no yard can cost over $800,000 in a decent neighborhood.)
Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
With today's inflation, housing prices, and the value of the dollar it's just to expensive to buy anything. (Keeping in mind that I'm more screwed than most as a small 2 bedroom house with no yard can cost over $800,000 in a decent neighborhood.)
Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
Yeah, that's pretty steep mrdenny. I too can vouch that the 5 year mark makes a nice difference in your salary. Wait until you reach 10 years, offers start falling from the sky (if you have the right qualifications and experience in the right areas). However right when I reached the 10 year mark is when we started the company I'm currently President of, so I guess I never really got to reap the employee benefits of the 10 year mark.
CISSP, MCT, MCSE2K/2K3, MCSA, CEH, Security+, Network+, CTT+, A+
CISSP, MCT, MCSE2K/2K3, MCSA, CEH, Security+, Network+, CTT+, A+
mrdenny
Programmer
- May 27, 2002
- 11,595
I can't wait for the 10 year mark. I'm almost there. About another 2 years to go. Should be fun.
Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
Denny
MCSA (2003) / MCDBA (SQL 2000)
--Anything is possible. All it takes is a little research. (Me)
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