MCSE or CNE equivalent to Bachelors???? 2

[mark01]

I read that on a web site that MCSE is an equivalent to a Bachelors degree. (not an actual bachelors, but the same amount of knowledge) Anyone heard anything similar?

 

[butchrecon]

Oh no way!!! MCSE is too easy to get now. And CNE is becoming the same way. A bachelors degree requires years of study. MCSE and CNE, With the "boot camps" today can be obtained in a few weeks. I am 2 years away from my Bachelors in MIS, and I can tell you it is harder than studying for the MS tests. So dont believe that malarky. Where did you see it at? From one of the solution providers taht offer MCSE in a few weeks? James Collins
Systems Support Engineer
A+, MCP

email: butchrecon@skyenet.net

Please let us (Tek-tips members) know if the solutions we provide are helpful to you. Not only do they help you but they may help others.

 

[mark01]

I agree that it is not even close to a bachelors degree, I thought that was kind-of silly myself, but I have one almost 2 associate degrees (one in general science, the other in applied computer networking). I also have A+, and one test away from CNE. I feel I have learned way more from the certification test's(studying & practicing) than from my College Education. Plus, in my own opinion, the stuff I learned from the certification material has been way more valuable than anything that I have gotten from college.(just because I don't study the material to learn answers for tests, I study to understand it)

 

[NJBoys808]

Well I have to disagree SOMEWHAT. Though I think that a bachelors degree is important depending on what field of computer science you intend to follow. The reason some employers would rather see a cert than a degree is because in the time it takes you to obtain the degree (2/4/6/8 years) the technology you studied is obsolete. Where as a cert says that you have recently worked with and understand fully the technology that your cert specifies. Now I admit that alot of people scam their way through the exams but they do that in college too.

David
Bachelor Science
MCSE, A+, Network+, CCNA

 

[butchrecon]

True people can scam there way through both college and Certs. I am seeing now with the job market the way it is that employers are starting to require both a degree AND Certifications. The "or relevent experience" is starting to disappear. This is probebly becuse the market is so competative now and also because of the boot camp style of certifications. Employers are now looking for someone who can not only do the job with little training and/or supervision, but someone who can lead and be a team player. Any one else see this? James Collins
Field Service Engineer
A+, MCP

email: butchrecon@skyenet.net

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[SteveTheGeek]

That's the trend I'm seeing, looking for both a technical degree and certs. I've got a B.S. in political science and a bunch of certs, but with most of the ads specifying CIS-type degree, I'm going to try parlaying my certs and existing credits into a CIS degree from Regents College.
-Steve

 

[Zelandakh]

Zel BSc, CIMA, MCSE, working on CNA next.

My BSc is useless. For a technical position (and I mean hands on), MCSE is the only way in.

 

[butchrecon]

It may also depend on the area. So far in the US most employers look for some degree to go with certifications AND experience. Not everyone will run into this. But it is there. And with the economic slow down and many techs losing jobs, the market is very competative. James Collins
Field Service Engineer
A+, MCP

email: butchrecon@skyenet.net

Please let us (Tek-tips members) know if the solutions we provide are helpful to you. Not only do they help you but they may help others.

 

[MMB]

MCSE is not even close. The Average Bachelors Degree is about 120 credit hours which is about 40 classes. These classes also include non IT subjects. The goal of a undergraduate degree is to educate the individual in many different areas.

An MCSE is specific technical expertise for a particular vendor product, whereas an undergraduate degree in more of a general education with an emphasis in one general area. Graduate level studies are more focused and technical in nature.

As am employer, I look for a combination of the following: College, Certs and experience.

 

[ShackDaddy]

If you could get a BA or BS and be frozen for 10 years, or get your MCSE and CCNP and be frozen for 10 years, what would you do? I hope the answer is painfully obvious!!!

ShackDaddy

 

[bluefoxoctober]

Being a Novell CNE, and about to become an MCP, I'd have to say that I think it's like getting a second major, if you already have a degree. When I started working with computers, it became obvious to me that my degree in Music, although Music is very mathematical, would not help me get a job. After I got my CNA, I got work in Network Administration. When I finished my CNE, I really felt like I had done the equivalent of a second major. I, too, like SteveTheGeek, am planning on doing an online degree of some sort.

So, to make a short story even longer than it should be, I would say no, it's not the same as a bachelor's degree.

 

[Guest_imported]

I have 14 years industry experience, and a B.A. and a M.S. in Computer Science(engineering). 20 years experience including college jobs (teaching Comp and Physics).

I think the biggest reason I have been successful thus far is that I know how to get along with people. I learned that in college. I also try to give people respect, sometimes even if they don't particularly deserve it. Courtesy is one of the best skills a person can have in this industry, It is only second to honesty. You probably won't get a question like that on an MS CERT test.

I just took and passed an exam for the MCP. I'm not planning on taking any more till this one runs out. I must admit that the studying was a good experience. But after taking the time to study (and looking objectively at how things are wired together in NT Server) I REALLY think Microsoft is behind the times technically. They do have a great marketing group though.

I built systems that maintained themselves through our intranet (servers and workstations) in the late 80's and through the 90's. MS is on the right track, but are still a bit on the clunky side. I could do most of their advanced server stuff with OS/2 8 years ago.

I really do kind of like W2K though.... It’s almost as stable as Linux.

Don't kid yourselves folks, CERT exams exist for one reason and one reason only...many people exagerate or downright lie on resumes. And testing is a GRAVY train for companies like Prometric.

Anybody else ever get reference check calls where a former employee claims to have done the work you or someone else did?

Employers were having fits with that kind of thing. You can't fire people today without a lawsuit....no matter how incompetent they are.

I guess Novell started certs with the CNE exams(I knew it was writing on the wall!) Testing is now it's own industry. Kind of cool being told I "measure up" by those folks. How many systems have they installed worldwide?????

I guess it is just another G.F.D.I. thing.

 

[RichardSheath]

I am currently migrating from yhe UK to Australia, and have to have a Skills assessment. The authoritive body says that the criteria is a Bachelors / Masters degree or an Associate degree with four years commercial experience. They classify an MCSE or CNE as being in the same category as an Associate degree.

Hope this helps

Richard Sheath
3rd line Messaging Systems Analyst
MCSE (NT4 and Win2k)
A+ N+ I+ CIW

 

[MMB]

I have a problem with this comparison.

MCSE is a technical certification which shows technical expertise with a particular group of vendor products.

A College Degree is an educational degree which covers many areas (reading, writing,etc) usually focusing on a particular(for example MIS) area.

The two cannot be compared. We are comparing apples to oranges.

 

[KenKasmar]

I think what is a more relevant point relates to the expectation you usually have of someone who has a degree vs. a technical certification. Sure it takes thousands of hours of lecture/study to get a computer science degree, but do you usually expect a fresh graduate to be able to be functional on any specific modern platform? Probably not. Now someone who has recently received an MCSE certification, for example, you would expect that they have a pretty solid working knowledge of the Windows 2000 environment. Even if they just braindumped their way through it, some of it had to have stuck.

I equate it to a comparison of a 2nd Lietenent (aka Butterbar) fresh out of ROTC (4 years, say) vs. a Sergeant with the same amount time in field training and field experience (aka Real Life Experience). Who would you follow into combat??? Ken Kasmar
MCSA, MCSE, CompTIA A+, CompTIA Network+
Red Falcon Internetworking, Inc.

http://www.redfalcon.net

 

[jtb]

A degree ought to teach one something... in effect, it's generally how to read questions and think out the answers before writing them down... generally, not always...

Technical certs don't actually depend on being able to communicate well with others...

Each has a place. What value one places on them is dependent on the career path chosen. For example, my father would have progressed much further along his career path had he chosen to get a degree. Instead, he had to learn professional writing skills "on the job", a much more difficult path...

Don't waste time on certs or degrees that won't take you where you want to go... but make sure where you want to go before you get started!!! JTB
Solutions Architect
MCSE-NT4, MCP+I, MCP-W2K, CCNA, CCDA,
CTE, MCIWD, i-Net+, Network+
(MCSA, MCSE-W2K, MCIWA, SCSA, SCNA in progress)

 

[WhiteZiggy]

I dont have any certs right now, so I am for the Bachelors...

But here is my reasoning,

I learned so much in school, that I can pick up most languages pretty easily, especially compared with non degreed people because the background is so much more in depth and UNDERSTANDING what the cpu is doing vs what u ask it to do...

Just my two cents... But I am for getting the certifications, I just think they are great as a secondary (I only know Microsoft) kinda way...

Jeremy